[Reader-list] Review of Irshad Manji's book

[Vikhar Ahmed]

7th July 2006



Dear Shohini Ghosh,



I must thank you for taking interest and responding to my review and you
raise an interesting question.



"Can Islam and homosexuality be reconciled?"



            There is an interesting essay that answers this question partly
in the book 'Because I have a Voice' edited by Gautam Bhan and Arvind
Narain. An essay written by Ali Potia explores the experience of growing up
gay and Muslim. Potia's argument in the essay is that Islam does not provide
space to homosexuality and thus he chooses a simple way and walks out of
Islam (It has been some time since I read this essay but I don't think I've
forgotten his argument – but if I've got it wrong in any way I apologise).
This would be an interesting place to start your exploration of the question
whether Islam and homosexuality can be reconciled.

            Secondly, I will try to look at the primary source of Islamic
Shariah, i.e., the Quran and try to give an answer to the question whether
Islam and homosexuality can be reconciled. The caveat here is that I cannot
even claim mild expertise on the shariah but hopefully my answer would be a
semblance of the orthodox scriptural response to the whole issue.

            In the seventh chapter of the Quran, Al-A'raf Verse 81 strictly
speaks out against homosexuality. The story of the Prophet Lot is common to
the three semitic faiths and he was sent "…as a Prophet and warner to the
people of Sodom and Gomorrah, cities utterly destroyed for their unspeakable
sins".

Chapter 7, Verse 80-81:

            We also (sent) Lut:

            He said to his people:

            "Do ye commit lewdness

            Such as no people

            In creation (ever) committed

            Before you?

            "For ye practice your lusts

            On men in preference

            To women: ye are indeed

            A people transgressing

            Beyond bounds".

Chapter 26, Verse 165-166 says:

            "Of all the creatures

            In the world, will ye

            Approach males,

            And leave those whom Allah

            Has created for you

            To be your mates?

            Nay, ye are a people

            Transgressing (all limits)!"

Thus, it is clear from these verses that the Quran considers homosexuality
to be a transgression and there would not be place for homosexuality within
Islam. There are also other verses in the Quran that speak about this theme.
I remember having a conversation with Sanjay Kabir Bavikatte, a lawyer who
studied in NLS, about this a long time back when he was doing some research
on Islamic Liberation Theology. He was trying to reconcile Islam and
homosexuality using these verses but I don't think interpretations of
Islamic law can really alter this fundamental piece of Quranic evidence.

            About the point you make about the role of desire this should
clear matters up a bit but I am also looking at some material on the
psychology of suicide bombers. I will write to you again about that.

            Thirdly, I disagree with you when you say that the question of
Islam and homosexuality is central to Manji's book. The central theme in
Manji's book is her emphasis that there needs to be a reform within the
contemporary understanding of Islam. Within this larger theme Islam's
orthodox denial of homosexuality is one part. What I find very interesting
about Manji is that she strongly identifies herself with Islam even though
orthodox Muslims would not consider her to be a Muslim. Unlike Ali Potia she
does not choose to abandon Islam.

            A fourth point that I would like to make would add on to Mahmood
Farroqui's comments. Historically Islamic societies (I find that phrase
slightly troublesome because can there be a society whose basis is primarily
religious – Islamic in this instance- but let me use it in this case)  have
condoned homosexuality. I will cite two instances that this is shown.

            In Orhan Pamuk's 'My Name is Red' there is excessive reference
to pederasty as an accepted form of sensual gratification in sixteenth
century Turkey. At that point of time the Caliphate (which can in some
senses be interpreted as a symbol of power more than a religious symbol) was
with the Turks. Thus, it could be categorized as one of the more religious
Islamic societies in the world at that time. There is a celebration of same
sex love and the manner in which the miniaturist 'Butterfly' is described
and the relationship between Master Osman and his apprentices alluded to
without any sense of shame portrays same sex love beautifully. I found
Pamuk's novel to be well researched historically and that is why I think
this can be cited as a valid example.

            A second instance is that of Baburnama. This is a sixteenth
century text again and is Babur's autobiography. Babur, unashamedly,
describes his feelings of love for a boy in his adolescence. He writes about
his feelings for the boy, "…before this experience I had never felt a desire
for anyone, nor did I listen to talk of love and affection or speak of such
things". Thus, I think I can (based on the limited evidence I could muster)
conclude that historically Islamic societies have made no secret of the fact
that homosexuality was accepted (Again, same-sex love between women is
something that I do not have any evidence on).



I have made an attempt to provide you with an initial idea of 'Islam and
homosexuality' but I confess that I need to read up more on the issue
myself. I will also keep you updated if I find any more relevant material
about this.



Bye,



Vikhar Ahmed Sayeed.

On 7/7/06, mahmood farooqui <mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Shohini,
>
> I read your remarks on Vikhar's review with great interest...
>
> On to the question of whether Islam can be reconciled with
> homosexuality...
>
> We can approach it doctrinally or historically...
>
> If we approach the question doctrinally we would need to determine the
> doctrinal canon within Islam, how it came about, what are the central
> texts, how they have changed over time and so on...
>
> That might not be such a fruitful proposition, but when we approach
> the questin historically we might find that Islamic societies, that is
> to say societies where Islam was a promiennt religion, have been the
> great founts of homosexual relations....a predominant part of Persian
> and Urdu poetry deals, when it deals with personal emotions, with
> young men and boys...and girls in the case of women poets if we
> properly unearth them. Half our sufis, I somethimes think in my
> exaggeratef flights of fancy, became so because of their same sex
> love...it is part of the reason, at least Ralph Russell would think
> so, why Urdu poetry does not have a gender specific in its
> address...that is perhaps why, pace the mid 18th century travelogue of
> Delhi called Muraqqa-e Delhi, a male dancer could earn as much as a
> lakh Rs a night for his performance....also that is why the Arabs and
> the Afghans have been renowned, at least whatever renown they earned
> in our parts of the world, for their sexual predilections...but that
> is still a male world, admissibly...
>
> The seventy virgins might or might not have appealed to Rabia, one of
> the founders, perhaps THE founder, of Sufism, but irrespective of
> gender, she at least expounded for us the simple fact that desire has
> to sublimated for it to achieve itself truly...whether it is material
> or carnal...
>
> The question really is not homosexuality versus Islam...but
> institutionalisation of same sex relations in the modern world versus
> its 'suppression' in the pre-modern part of it...
>
> When I try and approach the question historically the choices before
> me, again, are whether I want a tacit co-existence or a blatant
> manifestation...then it is an issue of choosing the modes of
> suppression...which one pleases us...
>
> Whatever our choices may be, they do not, from the perspective of the
> contemporary modern that we inhabit, cease to be arbitrary...
>
> Best,
> Mahmood
>
> On 04/07/06, Shohini Ghosh <shohini at vsnl.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Vikhar Ahmad: I read your review of Irshad Manji's `The Trouble
> with
> > Islam Today' with great interest. I agree to a very large extent with
> your
> > comments about her (frequently naive) political stance on many issues,
> most
> > notoriously, on the Israel Palestinian conflict. Your review however
> > underplays the dillemma that she outlines very early in her book : "Can
> > Islam and homosexulaity be reconciled?"  (Page 23) I think this idea is
> > pretty central to the book. Whether or not one agrees with her
> formulations,
> > it has to be taken seriously.   Had you engaged with the powerful role
> that
> > desire plays - of which sexual orientation is an integral part - you may
> > have hesitated to conclude that  "She [Irshad Manji] doesn't talk about
> > female suicide bombers and we can be sure that they don't blow
> themselves up
> > because of the seventy virgins in paradise". Well, we can't be so sure,
> can
> > we?  Besides, how many better reasons are there to die? Warmly Shohihi
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