[Reader-list] Review of Irshad Manji's book

Sat Jul 8 07:09:54 IST 2006

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Vikhar Ahmed 
  To: mahmood farooqui 
  Cc: Shohini Ghosh ; Reader List ; Monica Narula 
  Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Review of Irshad Manji's book

  7th July 2006

  Dear Shohini Ghosh,

  I must thank you for taking interest and responding to my review and you raise an interesting question. 

  "Can Islam and homosexuality be reconciled?"

              There is an interesting essay that answers this question partly in the book 'Because I have a Voice' edited by Gautam Bhan and Arvind Narain. An essay written by Ali Potia explores the experience of growing up gay and Muslim. Potia's argument in the essay is that Islam does not provide space to homosexuality and thus he chooses a simple way and walks out of Islam (It has been some time since I read this essay but I don't think I've forgotten his argument – but if I've got it wrong in any way I apologise). This would be an interesting place to start your exploration of the question whether Islam and homosexuality can be reconciled. 

              Secondly, I will try to look at the primary source of Islamic Shariah, i.e., the Quran and try to give an answer to the question whether Islam and homosexuality can be reconciled. The caveat here is that I cannot even claim mild expertise on the shariah but hopefully my answer would be a semblance of the orthodox scriptural response to the whole issue. 

              In the seventh chapter of the Quran, Al-A'raf Verse 81 strictly speaks out against homosexuality. The story of the Prophet Lot is common to the three semitic faiths and he was sent "…as a Prophet and warner to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, cities utterly destroyed for their unspeakable sins". 

  Chapter 7, Verse 80-81:

              We also (sent) Lut:

              He said to his people:

              "Do ye commit lewdness

              Such as no people

              In creation (ever) committed 

              Before you?

              "For ye practice your lusts 

              On men in preference 

              To women: ye are indeed

              A people transgressing

              Beyond bounds".

  Chapter 26, Verse 165-166 says:

              "Of all the creatures 

              In the world, will ye

              Approach males,

              And leave those whom Allah

              Has created for you

              To be your mates?

              Nay, ye are a people

              Transgressing (all limits)!"

  Thus, it is clear from these verses that the Quran considers homosexuality to be a transgression and there would not be place for homosexuality within Islam. There are also other verses in the Quran that speak about this theme. I remember having a conversation with Sanjay Kabir Bavikatte, a lawyer who studied in NLS, about this a long time back when he was doing some research on Islamic Liberation Theology. He was trying to reconcile Islam and homosexuality using these verses but I don't think interpretations of Islamic law can really alter this fundamental piece of Quranic evidence. 

              About the point you make about the role of desire this should clear matters up a bit but I am also looking at some material on the psychology of suicide bombers. I will write to you again about that. 

              Thirdly, I disagree with you when you say that the question of Islam and homosexuality is central to Manji's book. The central theme in Manji's book is her emphasis that there needs to be a reform within the contemporary understanding of Islam. Within this larger theme Islam's orthodox denial of homosexuality is one part. What I find very interesting about Manji is that she strongly identifies herself with Islam even though orthodox Muslims would not consider her to be a Muslim. Unlike Ali Potia she does not choose to abandon Islam.

              A fourth point that I would like to make would add on to Mahmood Farroqui's comments. Historically Islamic societies (I find that phrase slightly troublesome because can there be a society whose basis is primarily religious – Islamic in this instance- but let me use it in this case)  have condoned homosexuality. I will cite two instances that this is shown.

              In Orhan Pamuk's 'My Name is Red' there is excessive reference to pederasty as an accepted form of sensual gratification in sixteenth century Turkey. At that point of time the Caliphate (which can in some senses be interpreted as a symbol of power more than a religious symbol) was with the Turks. Thus, it could be categorized as one of the more religious Islamic societies in the world at that time. There is a celebration of same sex love and the manner in which the miniaturist 'Butterfly' is described and the relationship between Master Osman and his apprentices alluded to without any sense of shame portrays same sex love beautifully. I found Pamuk's novel to be well researched historically and that is why I think this can be cited as a valid example.

              A second instance is that of Baburnama. This is a sixteenth century text again and is Babur's autobiography. Babur, unashamedly, describes his feelings of love for a boy in his adolescence. He writes about his feelings for the boy, "…before this experience I had never felt a desire for anyone, nor did I listen to talk of love and affection or speak of such things". Thus, I think I can (based on the limited evidence I could muster) conclude that historically Islamic societies have made no secret of the fact that homosexuality was accepted (Again, same-sex love between women is something that I do not have any evidence on).  

  I have made an attempt to provide you with an initial idea of 'Islam and homosexuality' but I confess that I need to read up more on the issue myself. I will also keep you updated if I find any more relevant material about this. 

  Bye,

  Vikhar Ahmed Sayeed.

  On 7/7/06, mahmood farooqui <mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com> wrote:
    Dear Shohini,

    I read your remarks on Vikhar's review with great interest...

    On to the question of whether Islam can be reconciled with homosexuality...

    We can approach it doctrinally or historically... 

    If we approach the question doctrinally we would need to determine the
    doctrinal canon within Islam, how it came about, what are the central
    texts, how they have changed over time and so on...

    That might not be such a fruitful proposition, but when we approach 
    the questin historically we might find that Islamic societies, that is
    to say societies where Islam was a promiennt religion, have been the
    great founts of homosexual relations....a predominant part of Persian
    and Urdu poetry deals, when it deals with personal emotions, with
    young men and boys...and girls in the case of women poets if we
    properly unearth them. Half our sufis, I somethimes think in my
    exaggeratef flights of fancy, became so because of their same sex 
    love...it is part of the reason, at least Ralph Russell would think
    so, why Urdu poetry does not have a gender specific in its
    address...that is perhaps why, pace the mid 18th century travelogue of
    Delhi called Muraqqa-e Delhi, a male dancer could earn as much as a 
    lakh Rs a night for his performance....also that is why the Arabs and
    the Afghans have been renowned, at least whatever renown they earned
    in our parts of the world, for their sexual predilections...but that
    is still a male world, admissibly...

    The seventy virgins might or might not have appealed to Rabia, one of
    the founders, perhaps THE founder, of Sufism, but irrespective of
    gender, she at least expounded for us the simple fact that desire has 
    to sublimated for it to achieve itself truly...whether it is material
    or carnal...

    The question really is not homosexuality versus Islam...but
    institutionalisation of same sex relations in the modern world versus 
    its 'suppression' in the pre-modern part of it...

    When I try and approach the question historically the choices before
    me, again, are whether I want a tacit co-existence or a blatant
    manifestation...then it is an issue of choosing the modes of 
    suppression...which one pleases us...

    Whatever our choices may be, they do not, from the perspective of the
    contemporary modern that we inhabit, cease to be arbitrary...

    Best,
    Mahmood

    On 04/07/06, Shohini Ghosh < shohini at vsnl.com> wrote:
    >
    > Dear Vikhar Ahmad: I read your review of Irshad Manji's `The Trouble with
    > Islam Today' with great interest. I agree to a very large extent with your 
    > comments about her (frequently naive) political stance on many issues, most
    > notoriously, on the Israel Palestinian conflict. Your review however
    > underplays the dillemma that she outlines very early in her book : "Can 
    > Islam and homosexulaity be reconciled?"  (Page 23) I think this idea is
    > pretty central to the book. Whether or not one agrees with her formulations,
    > it has to be taken seriously.   Had you engaged with the powerful role that 
    > desire plays - of which sexual orientation is an integral part - you may
    > have hesitated to conclude that  "She [Irshad Manji] doesn't talk about
    > female suicide bombers and we can be sure that they don't blow themselves up 
    > because of the seventy virgins in paradise". Well, we can't be so sure, can
    > we?  Besides, how many better reasons are there to die? Warmly Shohihi
    > _________________________________________
    > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
    > Critiques & Collaborations
    > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe
    > in the subject header.
    > List archive:
    > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
    >
    _________________________________________ 
    reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
    Critiques & Collaborations
    To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. 
    List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/attachments/20060708/b7d94905/attachment.html 