[Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges

Sat Dec 1 14:11:13 IST 2007

And you answer for a peacful solution is general amnesty to all terrorists &
mass murderers and those who are responsible for exodus of 700000 relegios
minorties in Kashmir .

is that what you find a resolution and that too peaceful !

On 12/1/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Pawan,
>
> That *is* what I was talking about.
>
> We can either focus on Bitta Karate, Yasin Malik and other mentioned by
> you and insist upon retribution and death...
>
> Or we can look at trying to achieve peaceful cohabitation in Kashmir, and
> then due diligence on all the issues.
>
> Besides, the killing of Bitta Karate, Yasin Malik, etc., might satisfy
> some blood / revenge thirsty people, but I fail to understand how it will
> resolve any issue.
>
> Rgds, Partha
> ............................................................
>
>
>  On Dec 1, 2007 1:13 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Partha ,
> >
> > Though I wished to discuss on many points you have expressed , but for a
> > moment I just wanted to ask you a simple question
> >
> > As regards to people like Yasin malik and Bitta karate .....what is your
> > idea of peaceful solution ?
> >
> > Pawan
> >
> >
> >   On 12/1/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Pawan,
> > >
> > > I think we strayed a bit from what Shuddha mentioned, that is that
> > > he's as against the overtness of the Saudi regime as he is against the Modi
> > > one. What I have been referring to is the opposition of state-sponsored /
> > > encouraged violence that has occured in Gujarat, Nandigram and now the POSCO
> > > incidents. The moment any government needs to take action through non-legal
> > > punitive action, it steps out of the system of checks and balances that the
> > > constitution places upon us which is criminal - all the more so since it's
> > > being done by the very people who are chosen by us to uphold the
> > > constitution.
> > >
> > > On the issue of Babri Masjid / the Ram temple would like to figure out
> > > the logic of 'going back to the basics'. If today we start pulling down
> > > every building place that was once something else and replacing it with
> > > whatever it was, we'd have to knock down the Konarak Temple and even the
> > > North Block and virtually every building. Extremely ridiculous, wouldn't you
> > > agree?
> > >
> > > In any case, I never subscribed to the thought that God resides in a
> > > building. Turning a structure from a mosque to a temple can not take or add
> > > God to that structure.
> > >
> > > I will not talk of 'secular' parties as all parties by the very nature
> > > of their existence are bound to their vote banks. On the other hand, I
> > > certainly stay far from the BJP that is tied by it's core to the RSS and
> > > Hindu ideology - which I believe is incorrect for a party with national
> > > dreams. And I saw the rath yatra in Delhi with the jingoistic slogans, and I
> > > saw the BJP leaders in their double-speak when the court took up the Babri
> > > Masjid case. Typical politicians with forked tongues that mean nothing
> > > except public appeasement and dodging responsibility. However, the BJP
> > > fanaticism makes me distrust them.
> > >
> > > As for Kashmir, there is no one view, and each concerned party has
> > > different wants. Sure, I hear the shouts and I hear of the deaths and the
> > > pain. I hear the anger of people, each with their own bias and perspective.
> > > Do I know the 'ground reality'?
> > >
> > > No. Even if I went there I wouldn't as each 'group' in that
> > > conflict has become fragmented with different demands (that have changed
> > > over time, different 'truths' and different hates.
> > >
> > > Am not an expert on sociology, and certainly not on Kashmir, but I do
> > > like the idea of the killing stopping, a space to breathe and talk, and to
> > > resolve the issues one at a time through dialogue and not guns. Killing
> > > Yasin Malik, Bitta Karate is just another step onwards in the path of death.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sure, it's easy for me to talk as I've not been dispossesed by that
> > > conflict.
> > >
> > > What I'm trying to ask is what do you really want? A peaceful
> > > resolution or retribution?
> > >
> > > Rgds, Partha
> > > ....................
> > >
> > >
> > >  On 12/1/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Shuddha Wrote : " One does not have to link the decadence of current
> > > > Saudi
> > > > Arabia to the
> > > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of
> > > > abominations
> > > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I would
> > > > be just
> > > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as I
> > > > would
> > > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat
> > > > and in
> > > > India.
> > > >
> > > > Dear Shuddha ,
> > > >
> > > > While as you have an obsession with Modi and looking at how few of
> > > > you try
> > > > to link everything and anything communal happening with Modi , I
> > > > wonder
> > > > where does your conscience lead to ?
> > > >
> > > > Each time you quote " Indian States Military Occupation In Kashmir "
> > > > ,
> > > > without knowing the ground reality talk of your ignorance of the
> > > > ground
> > > > reality . You would be ready to accept figures given by a terrorist
> > > > or a
> > > > separatist organisation and at the same time averse to the real
> > > > figures.
> > > >
> > > > Each time you tend to ignore the genocide of hindus which happened
> > > > over a
> > > > period of time , but you feel merry to spread discontent among
> > > > minorties by
> > > > harping on a one time incident of Gujarat.
> > > >
> > > > Each time you talk about structure of Ram Temple being destroyed [
> > > > which
> > > > some of you called Babri ] , and at the same time non of you have
> > > > ever
> > > > discussed hundreds of temples being broken down to peices in Kashmir
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > Each time you talk about liberty of expression and at the same time
> > > > you want
> > > > all these liberties to be taken with Hindu relegion.
> > > >
> > > > Each time you talk of secular parties which you love even though
> > > > thay may be
> > > > aligned with a ML type of organisation and at the same time you need
> > > > an anti
> > > > allergic tablet if BJP is called secularist as well.
> > > >
> > > > Each time you speak of evil in Babu bajrangi but you have closed
> > > > your
> > > > thoughts for Yasin Maliks , Bitta karate and Hamdanis.
> > > >
> > > > Cmon ...get over Modi fixation . get over your thought that Indian
> > > > state has
> > > > "occupied" Kashmir. Get over that Military is anti people in Kashmir
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > Get real.....life is much more real than typing few words on the
> > > > keyboard.
> > > >
> > > > Pawan Durani
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 11/30/07, shuddha at sarai.net < shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Pawan,
> > > > >
> > > > > Hell comes in different flavours, as I tried to explain in an
> > > > earlier
> > > > > post,
> > > > > and as is evident from your posting of the brutal treatment meted
> > > > out to a
> > > > >
> > > > > young woman who has been the victim of gang rape in Saudi Arabia.
> > > > >
> > > > > Being against one kind of hell does not mean that we have to be
> > > > the
> > > > > partisans of other kinds of hell, elsewhere. The kind of
> > > > intellectual that
> > > > >
> > > > > I find interesting it the one who has no problem at all in terms
> > > > of
> > > > > evolving an engaged critique of oppression, no matter what form it
> > > > takes,
> > > > > no matter where it occurs. That is why, despite our respect for
> > > > people
> > > > > like
> > > > > Noam Chomsky, some of us took it upon ourselves to sharply
> > > > criticize his
> > > > > prevaricating apology for the 'Left Front' government's violence
> > > > against
> > > > > its own subjects in West Bengal
> > > > >
> > > > > And so, contrary to your expectations, some of those of us who
> > > > have been
> > > > > active on this list in arguing against the Indian state's military
> > > > > occupation of the Kashmir valley have had no problems at all in
> > > > being
> > > > > determined in our opposition to oppression when it occurs in Left
> > > > Front
> > > > > ruled West Bengal, in the current conditions of military
> > > > dictatorship in
> > > > > Burma and Pakistan, or for that matter when it occurs under the
> > > > aegis of
> > > > > the Ibn Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Tomorrow, if North Korea
> > > > were to be
> > > > > discussed on this list, I would be certain that there will be
> > > > clear
> > > > > arguments on this list against the imbecilic regime that rules
> > > > North Korea
> > > > > at the moment. The list can be justifiedly expanded to include
> > > > Iran, the
> > > > > United States, Russia and many other countries and states.
> > > > >
> > > > > Saudi Arabia is one of the most horrible places on the planet. It
> > > > is ruled
> > > > > by a corrupt, decadent ruling elite and kept in place by money,
> > > > weapons
> > > > > and
> > > > > influence wielded by British and American corporate intersts and
> > > > foreign
> > > > > policy. If the international community was justified in operating
> > > > a set of
> > > > > sanctions against the hated South African apartheid regime, it
> > > > should have
> > > > >
> > > > > no business in cosying up to the sexist, slave-owning, xenophobic,
> > > > > anti-semitic Saudi regime which is the favourite retirement
> > > > support agency
> > > > > of third rate dictators like Idi Amin and corrupt rulers like
> > > > Nawaz
> > > > > Sharif.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Saudi Monarchy, which rose to eminence as the stooge of
> > > > British
> > > > > foreign
> > > > > policy in the middle east in the early twentieth century presides
> > > > over an
> > > > > imbecilic and paranoid gloss of Islam, and the particularly
> > > > Salafist brand
> > > > >
> > > > > of Islam that is held out as an ideal by the Saudi monarchy and
> > > > its rented
> > > > > clerics is rightly rejected by the majority of Muslims in the
> > > > world. Its
> > > > > significance lies only in that it is backed by petro-dollars and
> > > > American
> > > > > fighter jets.
> > > > >
> > > > > One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia to
> > > > the
> > > > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of
> > > > abominations
> > > > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I
> > > > would be
> > > > > just
> > > > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as
> > > > I would
> > > > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat
> > > > and in
> > > > > India.
> > > > >
> > > > > regards.
> > > > >
> > > > > Shuddha
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2:13 pm 11/30/07 "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Would Someone Puhleez link this to Modi , RSS & Hindutva
> > > > > > ..........some intellectual surely would ..............
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/
> > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/rape-victim-ordered-200-lashes-and
> > > >
> > > > > > -prison-by-saudi-judges/
> > > > > > What can be called a travesty of judiciary, the Saudi Arabia's
> > > > Higher
> > > > > > Judicial Council has actually sentenced a rape victim to receive
> > > > 200
> > > > > > lashes and prison while the perpetrators of humanity's most
> > > > heinous
> > > > > > crime were allowed to walk free.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The 19-year-old Shiite woman who was raped by six armed men was
> > > > > > originally sentenced to receive 90 lashes for traveling in the
> > > > car of
> > > > > > an 'unrelated male' at the time of the rape. However after the
> > > > woman
> > > > > > had the temerity of not unquestioningly submitting herself to be
> > > >
> > > > > > tortured as punishment of being raped, the judges on Saudi
> > > > Arabia's
> > > > > > Higher Judicial Council more than doubled her punishment for
> > > > > > attempting to influence the judiciary through the media.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Her lawyer, human right activist Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, has been
> > > >
> > > > > > banned from carrying her case further. His license has been
> > > > revoked
> > > > > > and he has been called to appear before a disciplinary committee
> > > > for
> > > > > > challenging the judgment, which only punished the victim of the
> > > > crime
> > > > > > and not its perpetrators. The Sunni rapists were given a paltry
> > > > > > sentence of one to five years of imprisonment.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is the horrendous state of a country that keeps its women
> > > > > > forcefully behind veils only to extenuate and encourage heinous
> > > > > > crimes against them in the name of maintaining social
> > > > discipline.
> > > > > > _________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Partha Dasgupta
> > > +919811047132
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Partha Dasgupta
> +919811047132