[Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges

Partha Dasgupta parthaekka at gmail.com
Sat Dec 1 14:35:07 IST 2007 

Hi Pawan,

Read my mail. What I mentioned (as a personal viewpoint) is

1.   Peaceful cohabitation
2.   A common due diligence on all issues
3.   Either we can look at playing the retribution game with the Army,
'terrorists' and
      a host of other labelled people being killed and continuing the cycle
of death
      OR
      We can stop, use our common sense and try and resolve the central
issue which
      is the displacement of people and the semi-warzone status of Kashmir.

You mentioned the same in your statement as one whereas they are two
seperate issues of the "exodus of 70000 minorities" and "those who are
responsible" - whereas for the second I would hold the government liable.

In any case, I have not talked of amnesty. Even though you mentioned that
some have been released by the court, go ahead and take up the cases as we
are all aware of travesty of justice.

What I did mention is that to my personal opinion, the return of the
displaced people should be worked at first instead of shouts for more death
which the valley has seen enough of. Once that has been managed, treat the
other issues on a common platform.

And yes, I do call that a peaceful resolution.

Rgds, Partha
............................................

On Dec 1, 2007 2:11 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:

> And you answer for a peacful solution is general amnesty to all terrorists
> & mass murderers and those who are responsible for exodus of 700000 relegios
> minorties in Kashmir .
>
> is that what you find a resolution and that too peaceful !
>
>
>   On 12/1/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Pawan,
> >
> > That *is* what I was talking about.
> >
> > We can either focus on Bitta Karate, Yasin Malik and other mentioned by
> > you and insist upon retribution and death...
> >
> > Or we can look at trying to achieve peaceful cohabitation in Kashmir,
> > and then due diligence on all the issues.
> >
> > Besides, the killing of Bitta Karate, Yasin Malik, etc., might satisfy
> > some blood / revenge thirsty people, but I fail to understand how it will
> > resolve any issue.
> >
> > Rgds, Partha
> > ............................................................
> >
> >
> >  On Dec 1, 2007 1:13 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Partha ,
> > >
> > > Though I wished to discuss on many points you have expressed , but for
> > > a moment I just wanted to ask you a simple question
> > >
> > > As regards to people like Yasin malik and Bitta karate .....what is
> > > your idea of peaceful solution ?
> > >
> > > Pawan
> > >
> > >
> > >   On 12/1/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Pawan,
> > > >
> > > > I think we strayed a bit from what Shuddha mentioned, that is that
> > > > he's as against the overtness of the Saudi regime as he is against the Modi
> > > > one. What I have been referring to is the opposition of state-sponsored /
> > > > encouraged violence that has occured in Gujarat, Nandigram and now the POSCO
> > > > incidents. The moment any government needs to take action through non-legal
> > > > punitive action, it steps out of the system of checks and balances that the
> > > > constitution places upon us which is criminal - all the more so since it's
> > > > being done by the very people who are chosen by us to uphold the
> > > > constitution.
> > > >
> > > > On the issue of Babri Masjid / the Ram temple would like to figure
> > > > out the logic of 'going back to the basics'. If today we start pulling down
> > > > every building place that was once something else and replacing it with
> > > > whatever it was, we'd have to knock down the Konarak Temple and even the
> > > > North Block and virtually every building. Extremely ridiculous, wouldn't you
> > > > agree?
> > > >
> > > > In any case, I never subscribed to the thought that God resides in a
> > > > building. Turning a structure from a mosque to a temple can not take or add
> > > > God to that structure.
> > > >
> > > > I will not talk of 'secular' parties as all parties by the very
> > > > nature of their existence are bound to their vote banks. On the other hand,
> > > > I certainly stay far from the BJP that is tied by it's core to the RSS and
> > > > Hindu ideology - which I believe is incorrect for a party with national
> > > > dreams. And I saw the rath yatra in Delhi with the jingoistic slogans, and I
> > > > saw the BJP leaders in their double-speak when the court took up the Babri
> > > > Masjid case. Typical politicians with forked tongues that mean nothing
> > > > except public appeasement and dodging responsibility. However, the BJP
> > > > fanaticism makes me distrust them.
> > > >
> > > > As for Kashmir, there is no one view, and each concerned party has
> > > > different wants. Sure, I hear the shouts and I hear of the deaths and the
> > > > pain. I hear the anger of people, each with their own bias and perspective.
> > > > Do I know the 'ground reality'?
> > > >
> > > > No. Even if I went there I wouldn't as each 'group' in that
> > > > conflict has become fragmented with different demands (that have changed
> > > > over time, different 'truths' and different hates.
> > > >
> > > > Am not an expert on sociology, and certainly not on Kashmir, but I
> > > > do like the idea of the killing stopping, a space to breathe and talk, and
> > > > to resolve the issues one at a time through dialogue and not guns. Killing
> > > > Yasin Malik, Bitta Karate is just another step onwards in the path of death.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sure, it's easy for me to talk as I've not been dispossesed by that
> > > > conflict.
> > > >
> > > > What I'm trying to ask is what do you really want? A peaceful
> > > > resolution or retribution?
> > > >
> > > > Rgds, Partha
> > > > ....................
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  On 12/1/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Shuddha Wrote : " One does not have to link the decadence of
> > > > > current Saudi
> > > > > Arabia to the
> > > > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of
> > > > > abominations
> > > > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I
> > > > > would be just
> > > > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as
> > > > > I would
> > > > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat
> > > > > and in
> > > > > India.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Shuddha ,
> > > > >
> > > > > While as you have an obsession with Modi and looking at how few of
> > > > > you try
> > > > > to link everything and anything communal happening with Modi , I
> > > > > wonder
> > > > > where does your conscience lead to ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Each time you quote " Indian States Military Occupation In Kashmir
> > > > > " ,
> > > > > without knowing the ground reality talk of your ignorance of the
> > > > > ground
> > > > > reality . You would be ready to accept figures given by a
> > > > > terrorist or a
> > > > > separatist organisation and at the same time averse to the real
> > > > > figures.
> > > > >
> > > > > Each time you tend to ignore the genocide of hindus which happened
> > > > > over a
> > > > > period of time , but you feel merry to spread discontent among
> > > > > minorties by
> > > > > harping on a one time incident of Gujarat.
> > > > >
> > > > > Each time you talk about structure of Ram Temple being destroyed [
> > > > > which
> > > > > some of you called Babri ] , and at the same time non of you have
> > > > > ever
> > > > > discussed hundreds of temples being broken down to peices in
> > > > > Kashmir .
> > > > >
> > > > > Each time you talk about liberty of expression and at the same
> > > > > time you want
> > > > > all these liberties to be taken with Hindu relegion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Each time you talk of secular parties which you love even though
> > > > > thay may be
> > > > > aligned with a ML type of organisation and at the same time you
> > > > > need an anti
> > > > > allergic tablet if BJP is called secularist as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Each time you speak of evil in Babu bajrangi but you have closed
> > > > > your
> > > > > thoughts for Yasin Maliks , Bitta karate and Hamdanis.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cmon ...get over Modi fixation . get over your thought that Indian
> > > > > state has
> > > > > "occupied" Kashmir. Get over that Military is anti people in
> > > > > Kashmir .
> > > > >
> > > > > Get real.....life is much more real than typing few words on the
> > > > > keyboard.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pawan Durani
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 11/30/07, shuddha at sarai.net < shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Pawan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hell comes in different flavours, as I tried to explain in an
> > > > > earlier
> > > > > > post,
> > > > > > and as is evident from your posting of the brutal treatment
> > > > > meted out to a
> > > > > >
> > > > > > young woman who has been the victim of gang rape in Saudi
> > > > > Arabia.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Being against one kind of hell does not mean that we have to be
> > > > > the
> > > > > > partisans of other kinds of hell, elsewhere. The kind of
> > > > > intellectual that
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I find interesting it the one who has no problem at all in terms
> > > > > of
> > > > > > evolving an engaged critique of oppression, no matter what form
> > > > > it takes,
> > > > > > no matter where it occurs. That is why, despite our respect for
> > > > > people
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > Noam Chomsky, some of us took it upon ourselves to sharply
> > > > > criticize his
> > > > > > prevaricating apology for the 'Left Front' government's violence
> > > > > against
> > > > > > its own subjects in West Bengal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And so, contrary to your expectations, some of those of us who
> > > > > have been
> > > > > > active on this list in arguing against the Indian state's
> > > > > military
> > > > > > occupation of the Kashmir valley have had no problems at all in
> > > > > being
> > > > > > determined in our opposition to oppression when it occurs in
> > > > > Left Front
> > > > > > ruled West Bengal, in the current conditions of military
> > > > > dictatorship in
> > > > > > Burma and Pakistan, or for that matter when it occurs under the
> > > > > aegis of
> > > > > > the Ibn Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Tomorrow, if North Korea
> > > > > were to be
> > > > > > discussed on this list, I would be certain that there will be
> > > > > clear
> > > > > > arguments on this list against the imbecilic regime that rules
> > > > > North Korea
> > > > > > at the moment. The list can be justifiedly expanded to include
> > > > > Iran, the
> > > > > > United States, Russia and many other countries and states.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Saudi Arabia is one of the most horrible places on the planet.
> > > > > It is ruled
> > > > > > by a corrupt, decadent ruling elite and kept in place by money,
> > > > > weapons
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > influence wielded by British and American corporate intersts and
> > > > > foreign
> > > > > > policy. If the international community was justified in
> > > > > operating a set of
> > > > > > sanctions against the hated South African apartheid regime, it
> > > > > should have
> > > > > >
> > > > > > no business in cosying up to the sexist, slave-owning,
> > > > > xenophobic,
> > > > > > anti-semitic Saudi regime which is the favourite retirement
> > > > > support agency
> > > > > > of third rate dictators like Idi Amin and corrupt rulers like
> > > > > Nawaz
> > > > > > Sharif.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Saudi Monarchy, which rose to eminence as the stooge of
> > > > > British
> > > > > > foreign
> > > > > > policy in the middle east in the early twentieth century
> > > > > presides over an
> > > > > > imbecilic and paranoid gloss of Islam, and the particularly
> > > > > Salafist brand
> > > > > >
> > > > > > of Islam that is held out as an ideal by the Saudi monarchy and
> > > > > its rented
> > > > > > clerics is rightly rejected by the majority of Muslims in the
> > > > > world. Its
> > > > > > significance lies only in that it is backed by petro-dollars and
> > > > > American
> > > > > > fighter jets.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia
> > > > > to the
> > > > > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of
> > > > > abominations
> > > > > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I
> > > > > would be
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia,
> > > > > as I would
> > > > > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in
> > > > > Gujarat and in
> > > > > > India.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > regards.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Shuddha
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 2:13 pm 11/30/07 "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Would Someone Puhleez link this to Modi , RSS & Hindutva
> > > > > > > ..........some intellectual surely would ..............
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/
> > > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/rape-victim-ordered-200-lashes-and
> > > > >
> > > > > > > -prison-by-saudi-judges/
> > > > > > > What can be called a travesty of judiciary, the Saudi Arabia's
> > > > > Higher
> > > > > > > Judicial Council has actually sentenced a rape victim to
> > > > > receive 200
> > > > > > > lashes and prison while the perpetrators of humanity's most
> > > > > heinous
> > > > > > > crime were allowed to walk free.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The 19-year-old Shiite woman who was raped by six armed men
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > originally sentenced to receive 90 lashes for traveling in the
> > > > > car of
> > > > > > > an 'unrelated male' at the time of the rape. However after the
> > > > > woman
> > > > > > > had the temerity of not unquestioningly submitting herself to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > tortured as punishment of being raped, the judges on Saudi
> > > > > Arabia's
> > > > > > > Higher Judicial Council more than doubled her punishment for
> > > > > > > attempting to influence the judiciary through the media.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Her lawyer, human right activist Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, has
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > banned from carrying her case further. His license has been
> > > > > revoked
> > > > > > > and he has been called to appear before a disciplinary
> > > > > committee for
> > > > > > > challenging the judgment, which only punished the victim of
> > > > > the crime
> > > > > > > and not its perpetrators. The Sunni rapists were given a
> > > > > paltry
> > > > > > > sentence of one to five years of imprisonment.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is the horrendous state of a country that keeps its women
> > > > >
> > > > > > > forcefully behind veils only to extenuate and encourage
> > > > > heinous
> > > > > > > crimes against them in the name of maintaining social
> > > > > discipline.
> > > > > > > _________________________________________
> > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://mail.sarai.ne
> > > > > > > t/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > > > > > > List archive:
> > > > > &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________
> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > > > subscribe in the subject header.
> > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > > > >
> > > > > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Partha Dasgupta
> > > > +919811047132
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Partha Dasgupta
> > +919811047132
>
>
>


-- 
Partha Dasgupta
+919811047132

More information about the reader-list mailing list