[Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges
Pawan Durani
pawan.durani at gmail.com
Sat Dec 1 22:47:11 IST 2007
Hello Shudha ,
NamaskAr.........Hope you dont term me a rightist for using "NamaskAr" word.
I could sense from your mail the anger and helplessness you feel . Before
you advise me to chill , please apply that to yourself.
I still do not understand as to if arguing with me is so insignificant or
minor , what motivates you to reply to each of my post even if really
doesn't matter . I know somewhere you know the truth as well , and it is an
ego in you which keeps you defending yourself and attacking my nationalistic
viewpoint.
If I write about Pseudo secularists in general , you take it as an insult to
yourself . If I talk about hollow intellectualism which some believe in ,you
again take it so personally . C'mon .....Chill. I may be referring about
someone else as well.
Well , about your research about iconoclasm , the less said the better . My
knowledge about Kashmir has its roots well before google was invented. And
for those who want to make rest of world believe that humans came out of
eggs, google would help them write long long stories.
About my posts on various subject, i believe Partha may like to confirm it
.,....i have at many instances posted an article which I found interesting .
And whenever someone replied , i just said that these views were not
necessarily mine . I always provide a link to the original. I do not blame
you for not understanding these basics......i have learnt it long
back.....it may take you few more years.
And about your threat of defamation , well I am scared. So should others be
in this society of double standards . Where a person defends Hussain but is
planning to to encourage people to file a defamation against me.
I wonder what others have to say about threat of Shudha.
I am just too scared to write ........and wont dare to write the word Pseudo
Secularist and hollow intellectual again.....
But are you one for real ?
Pawan
On 12/1/07, shuddha at sarai.net < shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
>
> Dear Pawan,
>
> I am well aware of the ground realities of any situation I choose to write
> about. I am sure, that you must be aware by now that I make it my business
>
> to research anything that I write about on the reader list in some detail.
>
> I suggest you take a close look at your own levels of awareness of what
> you
> claim as your own history (I notice, for instance, that there is as yet no
>
> reply from you or Rashneek to my annotations on the history of iconoclasm
> in Kashmir).
>
> And no, I am neither a member, nor a sympathizer of any "M-L type of
> organization". I would urge you not to make public assumptions about the
> biographies of individuals you do not know. It's risky, you end up running
> the risk of being called either a liar, or being exposed as being very
> ignorant. You also run the risk of being accused (rightly, in my opinion)
> of defamation if you continue to articulate assumptions of this nature on
> any public platform. So, be careful.
>
> I think that your problem is that you want to put people into neat boxes,
> on which you want to put labels that your limited understand can make
> snese
> of, and then assign you assign to these lablels - roles in the shadow
> boxing joust of your own imagination. So, first you decided that you would
> corner us by sending us the details of the atrocities of so called
> communist regimes, then, when we argued that the atrocities of so called
> communist regimes are indefensible, you changed tack. When we argued
> strongly against the atrocities of regimes led by communist parties, such
> as has happenned in West Bengal, you turned around and defended Buddhadeb
> Bhattacharya.
>
> You tried to invoke Sethusamudran, then, when we said yes, Sethusamudran
> was a bad idea, you had no space left to squirm. Then you post some
> atrocity in Saudi Arabia, and we say, yes Saudi Arabia is hell, and now,
> you have less and less room to maneuver. Really, it must be hard being
> you.
>
> Finally, whenever you have nothing left to say, when your arguments are in
>
> shambles, when your misrepresentations stand exposed, you invoke and hurl
> the term 'intellectual' as a term of abuse. As if the work of evolving a
> critical understanding of the world were something to be ashamed of. I see
>
> no reason to be ashamed of intellectual work, just as I see no reason to
> be
> ashamed or any other kind of human activity. Can you imagine a situation
> where we would go around churlishly accusing each other of being 'pastry
> cooks', or 'dancers' or 'acrobats' or 'steelworkers' or 'photo shop
> operators' whenever we were faced with the weakness of our own positions
> and arguments. It would be absured. It would actually be pathetic. And
> when
> you cry 'intellectual' you sound just as absurd, just as pathetic, just as
> infantile.
>
> You write, you argue, you try to present your view of the world.
> Unfortunately, that makes you an intellectual. Just as what I do makes me
> an intellectual. There can be debate about the quality of our arguments,
> about how well they stand up to reason, and to the complexities of our
> times. There can be arguments about whether or not our intellectual work
> is
> of any value. But accusing people of being 'intellectuals' per se, is
> frankly, neither here, nor there. It is a meaningless statement.
>
> We all have a lot of things to do in our lives. And believe me, arguing
> with you is only a very minor, highly insignificant detail in the rich
> tapestry of our days. Regardless, it shall continue to be done, whenever
> it
> is crucially necessary for it to be done. Take my advice, relax, chill
> out,
> think about a few things other than what you have made your pet obsession,
> and don't jump to the gun all the time. You misfire, badly. And sometimes
> the bullets ricochet in your own direction. Or as we might say in football
>
> parlance "self-goal se bachte raho saathi" ("stay clear of self goals,
> friend")
>
> regards
>
> Shuddha
>
>
> On 10:42 am 12/01/07 "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Shuddha , While as you have an obsession with Modi and looking at
> how
> > few of you try to link everything and anything communal happening with
> > Modi , I wonder where does your conscience lead to ? Each time you
> > quote " Indian States Military Occupation In Kashmir " ,
> > without knowing the ground reality talk of your ignorance of the ground
> > reality . You would be ready to accept figures given by a terrorist or
> > a separatist organisation and at the same time averse to the real
> > figures. Each time you tend to ignore the genocide of hindus which
> > happened over a period of time , but you feel merry to spread
> > discontent among minorties by harping on a one time incident of
> > Gujarat. Each time you talk about structure of Ram Temple being
> > destroyed [ which some of you called Babri ] , and at the same time non
> > of you have ever discussed hundreds of temples being broken down to
> > peices in Kashmir . Each time you talk about liberty of expression and
> > at the same time you want all these liberties to be taken with Hindu
> > relegion. Each time you talk of secular parties which you love even
> > though thay may be aligned with a ML type of organisation and at the
> > same time you need an anti allergic tablet if BJP is called secularist
> > as well. Each time you speak of evil in Babu bajrangi but you have
> > closed your thoughts for Yasin Maliks , Bitta karate and Hamdanis. Cmon
> > ...get over Modi fixation . get over your thought that Indian state has
> > "occupied" Kashmir. Get over that Military is anti people in
> > Kashmir . Get real.....life is much more real than typing few words on
> > the keyboard. Pawan Durani
> >
> > On 11/30/07, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: Dear Pawan,
> >
> > Hell comes in different flavours, as I tried to explain in an earlier
> > post, and as is evident from your posting of the brutal treatment
> > meted out to a young woman who has been the victim of gang rape in
> > Saudi Arabia.
> >
> > Being against one kind of hell does not mean that we have to be the
> > partisans of other kinds of hell, elsewhere. The kind of intellectual
> > that I find interesting it the one who has no problem at all in terms
> > of evolving an engaged critique of oppression, no matter what form it
> > takes, no matter where it occurs. That is why, despite our respect
> > for people like Noam Chomsky, some of us took it upon ourselves to
> > sharply criticize his prevaricating apology for the 'Left
> > Front' government's violence against its own subjects in West
> > Bengal
> >
> > And so, contrary to your expectations, some of those of us who have
> > been active on this list in arguing against the Indian state's
> > military occupation of the Kashmir valley have had no problems at all
> > in being determined in our opposition to oppression when it occurs in
> > Left Front ruled West Bengal, in the current conditions of military
> > dictatorship in Burma and Pakistan, or for that matter when it occurs
> > under the aegis of the Ibn Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Tomorrow, if
> > North Korea were to be discussed on this list, I would be certain
> > that there will be clear arguments on this list against the imbecilic
> > regime that rules North Korea at the moment. The list can be
> > justifiedly expanded to include Iran, the United States, Russia and
> > many other countries and states.
> >
> > Saudi Arabia is one of the most horrible places on the planet. It is
> > ruled by a corrupt, decadent ruling elite and kept in place by money,
> > weapons and influence wielded by British and American corporate
> > intersts and foreign policy. If the international community was
> > justified in operating a set of sanctions against the hated South
> > African apartheid regime, it should have no business in cosying up to
> > the sexist, slave-owning, xenophobic, anti-semitic Saudi regime which
> > is the favourite retirement support agency of third rate dictators
> > like Idi Amin and corrupt rulers like Nawaz Sharif.
> >
> > The Saudi Monarchy, which rose to eminence as the stooge of British
> > foreign policy in the middle east in the early twentieth century
> > presides over an imbecilic and paranoid gloss of Islam, and the
> > particularly Salafist brand of Islam that is held out as an ideal by
> > the Saudi monarchy and its rented clerics is rightly rejected by the
> > majority of Muslims in the world. Its significance lies only in that
> > it is backed by petro-dollars and American fighter jets.
> >
> > One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia to the
> > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of
> > abominations that need to be fought, and fought till they are
> > destroyed. I would be just as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism
> > perish in Saudi Arabia, as I would be to see the short, sharp end of
> > Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat and in India.
> >
> > regards.
> >
> > Shuddha
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2:13 pm 11/30/07 "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Would Someone Puhleez link this to Modi , RSS & Hindutva
> > > ..........some intellectual surely would ..............
> > >
> > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/
> > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/rape-victim-ordered-200-lashes-
> > and
> > > -prison-by-saudi-judges/
> > > What can be called a travesty of judiciary, the Saudi Arabia's
> > > Higher Judicial Council has actually sentenced a rape victim to
> > > receive 200 lashes and prison while the perpetrators of
> > > humanity's most heinous crime were allowed to walk free.
> > >
> > > The 19-year-old Shiite woman who was raped by six armed men was
> > > originally sentenced to receive 90 lashes for traveling in the car
> > > of an 'unrelated male' at the time of the rape. However
> > > after the woman had the temerity of not unquestioningly submitting
> > > herself to be tortured as punishment of being raped, the judges on
> > > Saudi Arabia's Higher Judicial Council more than doubled her
> > > punishment for attempting to influence the judiciary through the
> > > media.
> > > Her lawyer, human right activist Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, has been
> > > banned from carrying her case further. His license has been
> > > revoked and he has been called to appear before a disciplinary
> > > committee for challenging the judgment, which only punished the
> > > victim of the crime and not its perpetrators. The Sunni rapists
> > > were given a paltry sentence of one to five years of imprisonment.
> > >
> > > This is the horrendous state of a country that keeps its women
> > > forcefully behind veils only to extenuate and encourage heinous
> > > crimes against them in the name of maintaining social discipline.
> > > _________________________________________
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