[Reader-list] gujrat election

Tue Dec 25 14:08:31 IST 2007

Dear Vedavati,
Thanks for a long response. I will definitely ask my Bengali 'Hindu'
brother-in-law (my blood sister's husband) what his sentiments are and how I
can truly support him. But if he bangs the phone on me because he thinks I
have lost my head, then I may need to ask for your help. I will also ask my
Palakat Brahmin 'Hindu' ex-boyfriend from Kerala what his sentiments are and
how I can truly support him but if he refuses to speak with me henceforth
because he harbours certain 'secular' (aiee pseudosecular) sentiments, then
I may have to revert back to you. I shall also ask my variously 'Hindu'
colleagues in my Ph.D. programme if they have certain sentiments that I can
support, I will certainly do that - by the way, there are Tamilians,
Kannadigas, Malayalis with me, each of whose kin and 'ancestors' harbour
different kinds of linguistic hatreds against each other, so perhaps I may
have some task at hand in figuring out their sentiments, but surely I will
do what you have suggested.

As for asking me to leave from here because no one has detained me, I cannot
remember anywhere in my email where I have said I want to leave this
'place'. For you, this 'nation' may be your place. For me, my hearth in this
part of Bangalore is my 'place' as much as Bombay city is my 'place'. For
some of the folks at Sarai for example, Sarai is their 'place' that happens
to be situated in 'Delhi' and some among them might own 'Delhi' as their
place while completely rejecting 'Delhi as the national capital place'.
'Place' and the feeling of 'place' are not fixed notions and they emerge
from time to time. For instance my relative in Bharatnagar slum and her
neighbours who have  been living there for donkey's years are now being
'displaced' because builders want to build large complexes there. Her
statements to me and some of my colleagues and friends was "this is my place
and I am not going to leave it." I don't think they care about Hindustan or
India or Bharat when they are being 'displaced' for some wonked, euphoric
imagination of the city.

It is extremely easy for you and for some of the people on this list to
finally react and say 'go back to Pakistan' as if 'Pakistan' were the last
refuge for 'pseudosecular' 'non-compliant with mainstreamism' 'Muslims'. Is
there anything beyond this that you can say? And what is that 'Pakistan'
that you are asking 'us' (though I strongly disagree with this) 'Muslims' to
go to? What is your imagination of that Pakistan that you are 'condemning'
'us' to?

Truly,
Zainab
P.S. You might want also perhaps refresh my memory of what Godhra riots
caused the riots in Mumbai. And also, how were the people of Mumbai
concerned with a temple being built in place of a mosque. I know for sure
that my father could not care whether a temple or mosque was being built.
All he cared about was his livelihood that was charred to rubble in Jan 1993
for no position of his in a mandir-masjid issue.
P.S.2 I am not sure if Babar is really me ancestor. I don't have Persian
descent. I have some wonked Kutch-Gujarat descent/genes.

On Dec 25, 2007 12:12 PM, Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  my dear zainab,
>
> nobody has detained you here. if you don't find india a good place to live
> in you can anytime migrate to pakistan.
>
> muslims know how to complain, muslims know their rights well but they
> never understand their responsibilities.they never understand their own
> mistakes.
>
> (1)who had started 1992-93 riots? who first burnt karsevaks at godhra
> station?
> even after partitioning this country on religious basis muslims were
> allowed to stay in india, given equal rights rather more rights- was is not
> a magnonimity shown by hindus?
>
> id you reciprocate?
> did you allow your hindu brothers to build  ram temple at the place where
> babri structure once stood?
>
> if you too are the sons of this soil, why do you have to look upon babar
> and not ram as your ancestor? babar was an invader. and i don't think
> any country on this earth has ever taken pride for invader's deeds.
>
> (2)you know it very well that madarasa educated child cannot compete with
> other children who are trained in secular schools. moreover nobody has
> stopped muslims from sending their wards to govt. run schools.
> still you send your chidren to madarasa and then complain that they don't
> get jobs anywhere because they are muslims,.... hence 'sacchar'.... hence
> demand for reservations..!
>
> (3)if muslim women are the poorest of the poor then that is because of
> your own personal laws. why don't you accept uniform civil code?
>
> (4)there are many towering personalities in various fields in  india who
> are muslims and  are very much loved by hindus. they never faced any
> descrimination just because they are muslims, then why this 'false
> propaganda' which separates you from main stream? think over it if possible.
>
> (5)you have rightly pointed out that no action has been taken against
> those hindus who participated in 92-93 riots, and i am sure in future also
> nobody even sonia becomes pm, will dare to take action against hindu
> culprits because these politician do everything to garner votes. why muslim
> appeasement? not for the betterment of muslims but for the sake of votes.
> now hindu votebank has been created in gujrat so nobody will dare to take
> action against 2002 culprits.  this is politics!
>
> try to understand this. don't trust these politicians & seculars, instead
> trust your hindu brothers who are truely secualr if not provoked, join hands
> with them, join the mainstream for nation building.
>
> if you want muslim sentiments to be taken care of then try to care for
> hindu sentiments too.
>
> vedavati
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:45:46 +0530
> From: bawazainab79 at gmail.com
> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: FW: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> CC: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net
>
>
> My dear Vedavati, When you say "modi  does not 'reserve' seats  instead he
> talks about '5 crore gujratis (including bc/obcs/muslims)' . he does not
> equate soharabuddin & common muslims, hence he does not hesitate to take
> stern action against the former because he knows  that will not hurt
> muslim sentiments anyway." I don't think there are any sentiments left
> after brutal rape, violence and torture. When the soul is killed and when
> you have to live in duress under a 'secular rule' where each day you are
> reminded that you 'are Muslim' (irrespective of whether that is your primary
> identity or not), you think there can be any sentiment or voice left? What
> do you have to say to the fact that all 'Muslims' who participated in the
> 1992-93 riots in Bombay were punished by the judiciary but no action was
> taken against the 'Hindus' who committed violences because Maharashtra
> government under amoeba Deshmukh felt that doing so will result in mass
> violence? I am sure this is a very peaceful and secular state to be in,one
> where even when there are no sentiments, they are assumed to be aligned.
> In peace,
> Zainab (gujju ben)
>
> On Dec 24, 2007 11:32 AM, Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> dear zainab,
>
> 'india is a secular country and will remain a secular country only because
> of majority community (that is hindus)'. otherwise 99% muslims who had voted
> for pakistan in 1947 would not have dared to stay  in india after partition.
> they chose to stay back because their daily bread & butter was here not
> because they were supporting 'secularism'.
>
> congress too followed british policy of divide & rule after 1947.
> they gave reservations to bc, obcs, by reserving few thousands of seats
> they fooled crores of bcs & obcs and divided hindus.
>
> there are many towering personalities from muslim community in india like
> dr. kalam, bismilla khan, zakir hussain, shahruhk, amir khan, irfan pathan,
> amjad ali and many more... all of them come from ordinary background and
> are very very popular among hindus. still congress & left parties talked
> about descrimination, indirectly gave the slogan of 'islam khatareme hai' ,
> showed carrot of 'suchhar' to muslims to keep their muslim vote bank
> intact.  they can't hang afzal guru because that might hurt muslim
> sentiments.
>
> modi  does not 'reserve' seats  instead he talks about '5 crore gujratis
> (including bc/obcs/muslims)' . he does not equate soharabuddin & common
> muslims, hence he does not hesitate to take stern action against the former
> because he knows that will not hurt muslim sentiments anyway.
>
> this secularism practised by congress & likes has always been at the
> expense of hindus. terrorists are attacking temples & trains still -congress
> is talking about 'liberalism', they create hue & cry when person like
> soharabuddin is killed. they have talked a lot about 'gujrat' killings what
> about 'kashmiri pundits'?
>
> gujjubhais  have proved that hereafter hindus cannot be taken for granted.
> that is why it is their victory!
>
> vedavati
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:04:12 -0800
> From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> To: bawazainab79 at gmail.com
> CC: vrjogi at hotmail.com
>
>
>  Hi,
>
> You need to understand a simple thing - it is Hindus who are facing the
> problem of communalism on their own motherland..
> Narendra Modi is a strong Hindu supporter... And when I say Hindu, it is
> to be understand that the world Humanity is already enveloped in it..
> So, when Narendra Modi has won it is Hindus who have won.. in other words,
> it is humanity that has won..
>
> Muslims has yet to prove their nationalist approach..Muslims gather in big
> mass when there is anything related to their religion...
> But there is not a single movement by Muslims when Hindus get killed in
> Terrorist attacks...
> Muslims shout like anything for 2002 riot... But none has ever said a word
> about Nandigram, Kashmir or Achalpur (Oct 2007 riot)...
>
> Whenever Muslims will come on Road to declare that Terrorist are Muslims
> but not Quranic followers, whenver Muslims would do some roadshow to make
> the world realize that Terrorist and Muslim are two different set of
> people.. Whenever Muslim would oppose what is written on irf.net that all
> Muslims are terrorists and they should be proud of it.. Whenever Muslims
> will understand that crime is to be dealt with law and not religion.... THEN
> Narendra Modi's win would be all people's win...
>
> Don't you think that India is secular because it yet contains majority of
> Hindus... can you say Kashmir is secular.. we will soon know West Bengal
> becoming another Kashmir..
> Why is that wherever Muslims exists (and if there is no strict law to
> handle them)..there is killing, hatred and voilence...
>
> Muslims have to rethink on their learnings of Quran... Declaring Quran as
> words of God and then putting killing into action in the name of same God is
> not justifiable.. For hundreds of years this is what is happening through
> our Muslims brothers... It is they who have intruded in the nation of
> Hindus, Hindus have not gone into Arabia to indulge into what they used to
> do there....  Yet, Hindus call them brothers...  The day Muslim will start
> calling Hindus as brothers... the day Muslims would start respecting the
> mother (cow) of their brothers.. the Muslim would join the festivals of
> their brothers...  the secularism would meet its meaning....
>
> Muslims have to realize that 2002 riot would not have taken place, had
> Godhra would not have taken place...
> Muslims have to realize that Vande Matram and Jai Hind is what is expected
> from their month....
>
> I hope I am clear on why Hindus believe Narendra Modi's win is Hindus
> win...
>
> Jai Hind,
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Zainab Bawa <bawazainab79 at gmail.com>
> To: TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net; Vedavati Jogi < vrjogi at hotmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 8:34:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election
>
> Hi Vedavati,Thanks for the forceful clarification. I am still a bit
> unclear
> as to why Modi's victory is a victory for Hindus? as for formation of
> Hindu
> votebanks, there are several of them across the country and as you
> yourself
> have accepted that just as all Gujjus are not Hindus, so also all Hindus
> are
> not Hindus.
> I really apologize for my dimwitedness and my inability to understand your
>
> claim that Modi's victory is a victory for Hindus. Are you suggesting that
> Modi's victory is now a step ahead in the formation of 'Hindustan'?
> Again, apologies for nagging you.
> Cheers,
> Zainab (confused gujju ben)
>
> On Dec 24, 2007 1:30 AM, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Isn't it rather a defeat of Hindu forces? Ask Praveen Togadia. Ask the
> > RSS members discontented with Modi. Ask the guy giving Modi "Brahmin ka
> > shaap" for getting his son murdered. Will another Hindu terrorist Advani
> > be
> > happy with the results? Is Uma Bharati pseudo secular or pseudo communal
>
> > for
> > floating her own party against BJP?
> > The fight in Gujarat was a fight between Hindus and Hindus if Hindus
> have
> > won, Hindus have
> > lost too. So your victory gets canceled. Evil wins and evil loses.
> > May be you will be more careful before putting your foot in to your
> mouth
> > next time.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Vedavati Jogi" < vrjogi at hotmail.com>
> > To: <reader-list at sarai.net>; <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:20 AM
> > Subject: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > whether it is a victory for bjp or for modi....its a  useless
> question.
> > > its a victory for hindus. and i hope it will be an eye opener for
> psudo
> > > seculars!
> > >
> > > you can't always divide hindus & rule. thank you gujjubhais for
> showing
> > > the world that when hindus unite, hindu vote bank too can be formed!
> > >
> > > vedavati
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
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