[Reader-list] gujrat election

Tue Dec 25 14:52:09 IST 2007

Dear Vedavati:

Please shove your Hindu sentiments up your arse... take that from a Hindu
brother of yours who had done that a long long time back... trust me it
feels orgasmic... and once you get the hang of it... you'll keep doing it
over and over again... shoving up the Hindu bullshit I mean...

May be that should be your new year resolution...

Good luck...

Oishik

P.S.: Apologies to other reader-list users for the purposeful use of a
certain kind of language (cannot say whether it is indecent or not)... I
know we need to confront radicalism with reason... and not drivel... but I
hope to be excused this time... for the sake of the holiday season!

On Dec 25, 2007 2:38 AM, Zainab Bawa <bawazainab79 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Vedavati,
> Thanks for a long response. I will definitely ask my Bengali 'Hindu'
> brother-in-law (my blood sister's husband) what his sentiments are and how
> I
> can truly support him. But if he bangs the phone on me because he thinks I
>
> have lost my head, then I may need to ask for your help. I will also ask
> my
> Palakat Brahmin 'Hindu' ex-boyfriend from Kerala what his sentiments are
> and
> how I can truly support him but if he refuses to speak with me henceforth
> because he harbours certain 'secular' (aiee pseudosecular) sentiments,
> then
> I may have to revert back to you. I shall also ask my variously 'Hindu'
> colleagues in my Ph.D. programme if they have certain sentiments that I
> can
> support, I will certainly do that - by the way, there are Tamilians,
> Kannadigas, Malayalis with me, each of whose kin and 'ancestors' harbour
> different kinds of linguistic hatreds against each other, so perhaps I may
>
> have some task at hand in figuring out their sentiments, but surely I will
> do what you have suggested.
>
> As for asking me to leave from here because no one has detained me, I
> cannot
> remember anywhere in my email where I have said I want to leave this
> 'place'. For you, this 'nation' may be your place. For me, my hearth in
> this
> part of Bangalore is my 'place' as much as Bombay city is my 'place'. For
> some of the folks at Sarai for example, Sarai is their 'place' that
> happens
> to be situated in 'Delhi' and some among them might own 'Delhi' as their
> place while completely rejecting 'Delhi as the national capital place'.
> 'Place' and the feeling of 'place' are not fixed notions and they emerge
> from time to time. For instance my relative in Bharatnagar slum and her
> neighbours who have  been living there for donkey's years are now being
> 'displaced' because builders want to build large complexes there. Her
> statements to me and some of my colleagues and friends was "this is my
> place
> and I am not going to leave it." I don't think they care about Hindustan
> or
> India or Bharat when they are being 'displaced' for some wonked, euphoric
> imagination of the city.
>
> It is extremely easy for you and for some of the people on this list to
> finally react and say 'go back to Pakistan' as if 'Pakistan' were the last
> refuge for 'pseudosecular' 'non-compliant with mainstreamism' 'Muslims'.
> Is
> there anything beyond this that you can say? And what is that 'Pakistan'
> that you are asking 'us' (though I strongly disagree with this) 'Muslims'
> to
> go to? What is your imagination of that Pakistan that you are 'condemning'
>
> 'us' to?
>
> Truly,
> Zainab
> P.S. You might want also perhaps refresh my memory of what Godhra riots
> caused the riots in Mumbai. And also, how were the people of Mumbai
> concerned with a temple being built in place of a mosque. I know for sure
> that my father could not care whether a temple or mosque was being built.
> All he cared about was his livelihood that was charred to rubble in Jan
> 1993
> for no position of his in a mandir-masjid issue.
> P.S.2 I am not sure if Babar is really me ancestor. I don't have Persian
> descent. I have some wonked Kutch-Gujarat descent/genes.
>
>
> On Dec 25, 2007 12:12 PM, Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  my dear zainab,
> >
> > nobody has detained you here. if you don't find india a good place to
> live
> > in you can anytime migrate to pakistan.
> >
> > muslims know how to complain, muslims know their rights well but they
> > never understand their responsibilities.they never understand their own
> > mistakes.
> >
> > (1)who had started 1992-93 riots? who first burnt karsevaks at godhra
> > station?
> > even after partitioning this country on religious basis muslims were
> > allowed to stay in india, given equal rights rather more rights- was is
> not
> > a magnonimity shown by hindus?
> >
> > id you reciprocate?
> > did you allow your hindu brothers to build  ram temple at the place
> where
> > babri structure once stood?
> >
> > if you too are the sons of this soil, why do you have to look upon babar
> > and not ram as your ancestor? babar was an invader. and i don't think
> > any country on this earth has ever taken pride for invader's deeds.
> >
> > (2)you know it very well that madarasa educated child cannot compete
> with
> > other children who are trained in secular schools. moreover nobody has
> > stopped muslims from sending their wards to govt. run schools.
> > still you send your chidren to madarasa and then complain that they
> don't
> > get jobs anywhere because they are muslims,.... hence 'sacchar'....
> hence
> > demand for reservations..!
> >
> > (3)if muslim women are the poorest of the poor then that is because of
> > your own personal laws. why don't you accept uniform civil code?
> >
> > (4)there are many towering personalities in various fields in  india who
>
> > are muslims and  are very much loved by hindus. they never faced any
> > descrimination just because they are muslims, then why this 'false
> > propaganda' which separates you from main stream? think over it if
> possible.
> >
> > (5)you have rightly pointed out that no action has been taken against
> > those hindus who participated in 92-93 riots, and i am sure in future
> also
> > nobody even sonia becomes pm, will dare to take action against hindu
> > culprits because these politician do everything to garner votes. why
> muslim
> > appeasement? not for the betterment of muslims but for the sake of
> votes.
> > now hindu votebank has been created in gujrat so nobody will dare to
> take
> > action against 2002 culprits.  this is politics!
> >
> > try to understand this. don't trust these politicians & seculars,
> instead
> > trust your hindu brothers who are truely secualr if not provoked, join
> hands
> > with them, join the mainstream for nation building.
> >
> > if you want muslim sentiments to be taken care of then try to care for
> > hindu sentiments too.
> >
> > vedavati
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:45:46 +0530
> > From: bawazainab79 at gmail.com
> > To: vrjogi at hotmail.com
> > Subject: Re: FW: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> > CC: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net
> >
> >
> > My dear Vedavati, When you say "modi  does not 'reserve' seats  instead
> he
> > talks about '5 crore gujratis (including bc/obcs/muslims)' . he does not
> > equate soharabuddin & common muslims, hence he does not hesitate to take
>
> > stern action against the former because he knows  that will not hurt
> > muslim sentiments anyway." I don't think there are any sentiments left
> > after brutal rape, violence and torture. When the soul is killed and
> when
> > you have to live in duress under a 'secular rule' where each day you are
> > reminded that you 'are Muslim' (irrespective of whether that is your
> primary
> > identity or not), you think there can be any sentiment or voice left?
> What
> > do you have to say to the fact that all 'Muslims' who participated in
> the
> > 1992-93 riots in Bombay were punished by the judiciary but no action was
> > taken against the 'Hindus' who committed violences because Maharashtra
> > government under amoeba Deshmukh felt that doing so will result in mass
> > violence? I am sure this is a very peaceful and secular state to be
> in,one
> > where even when there are no sentiments, they are assumed to be aligned.
>
> > In peace,
> > Zainab (gujju ben)
> >
> > On Dec 24, 2007 11:32 AM, Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > dear zainab,
> >
> > 'india is a secular country and will remain a secular country only
> because
> > of majority community (that is hindus)'. otherwise 99% muslims who had
> voted
> > for pakistan in 1947 would not have dared to stay  in india after
> partition.
> > they chose to stay back because their daily bread & butter was here not
> > because they were supporting 'secularism'.
> >
> > congress too followed british policy of divide & rule after 1947.
> > they gave reservations to bc, obcs, by reserving few thousands of seats
> > they fooled crores of bcs & obcs and divided hindus.
> >
> > there are many towering personalities from muslim community in india
> like
> > dr. kalam, bismilla khan, zakir hussain, shahruhk, amir khan, irfan
> pathan,
> > amjad ali and many more... all of them come from ordinary background and
> > are very very popular among hindus. still congress & left parties talked
> > about descrimination, indirectly gave the slogan of 'islam khatareme
> hai' ,
> > showed carrot of 'suchhar' to muslims to keep their muslim vote bank
> > intact.  they can't hang afzal guru because that might hurt muslim
> > sentiments.
> >
> > modi  does not 'reserve' seats  instead he talks about '5 crore gujratis
>
> > (including bc/obcs/muslims)' . he does not equate soharabuddin & common
> > muslims, hence he does not hesitate to take stern action against the
> former
> > because he knows that will not hurt muslim sentiments anyway.
> >
> > this secularism practised by congress & likes has always been at the
> > expense of hindus. terrorists are attacking temples & trains still
> -congress
> > is talking about 'liberalism', they create hue & cry when person like
> > soharabuddin is killed. they have talked a lot about 'gujrat' killings
> what
> > about 'kashmiri pundits'?
> >
> > gujjubhais  have proved that hereafter hindus cannot be taken for
> granted.
> > that is why it is their victory!
> >
> > vedavati
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> > Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:04:12 -0800
> > From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> > To: bawazainab79 at gmail.com
> > CC: vrjogi at hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >  Hi,
> >
> > You need to understand a simple thing - it is Hindus who are facing the
> > problem of communalism on their own motherland..
> > Narendra Modi is a strong Hindu supporter... And when I say Hindu, it is
> > to be understand that the world Humanity is already enveloped in it..
> > So, when Narendra Modi has won it is Hindus who have won.. in other
> words,
> > it is humanity that has won..
> >
> > Muslims has yet to prove their nationalist approach..Muslims gather in
> big
> > mass when there is anything related to their religion...
> > But there is not a single movement by Muslims when Hindus get killed in
> > Terrorist attacks...
> > Muslims shout like anything for 2002 riot... But none has ever said a
> word
> > about Nandigram, Kashmir or Achalpur (Oct 2007 riot)...
> >
> > Whenever Muslims will come on Road to declare that Terrorist are Muslims
>
> > but not Quranic followers, whenver Muslims would do some roadshow to
> make
> > the world realize that Terrorist and Muslim are two different set of
> > people.. Whenever Muslim would oppose what is written on irf.net that
> all
> > Muslims are terrorists and they should be proud of it.. Whenever Muslims
> > will understand that crime is to be dealt with law and not religion....
> THEN
> > Narendra Modi's win would be all people's win...
> >
> > Don't you think that India is secular because it yet contains majority
> of
> > Hindus... can you say Kashmir is secular.. we will soon know West Bengal
>
> > becoming another Kashmir..
> > Why is that wherever Muslims exists (and if there is no strict law to
> > handle them)..there is killing, hatred and voilence...
> >
> > Muslims have to rethink on their learnings of Quran... Declaring Quran
> as
> > words of God and then putting killing into action in the name of same
> God is
> > not justifiable.. For hundreds of years this is what is happening
> through
> > our Muslims brothers... It is they who have intruded in the nation of
> > Hindus, Hindus have not gone into Arabia to indulge into what they used
> to
> > do there....  Yet, Hindus call them brothers...  The day Muslim will
> start
> > calling Hindus as brothers... the day Muslims would start respecting the
>
> > mother (cow) of their brothers.. the Muslim would join the festivals of
> > their brothers...  the secularism would meet its meaning....
> >
> > Muslims have to realize that 2002 riot would not have taken place, had
> > Godhra would not have taken place...
> > Muslims have to realize that Vande Matram and Jai Hind is what is
> expected
> > from their month....
> >
> > I hope I am clear on why Hindus believe Narendra Modi's win is Hindus
> > win...
> >
> > Jai Hind,
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Zainab Bawa <bawazainab79 at gmail.com>
> > To: TaraPrakash < taraprakash at gmail.com>
> > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net; Vedavati Jogi < vrjogi at hotmail.com >
> > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 8:34:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> >
> > Hi Vedavati,Thanks for the forceful clarification. I am still a bit
> > unclear
> > as to why Modi's victory is a victory for Hindus? as for formation of
> > Hindu
> > votebanks, there are several of them across the country and as you
> > yourself
> > have accepted that just as all Gujjus are not Hindus, so also all Hindus
>
> > are
> > not Hindus.
> > I really apologize for my dimwitedness and my inability to understand
> your
> >
> > claim that Modi's victory is a victory for Hindus. Are you suggesting
> that
> > Modi's victory is now a step ahead in the formation of 'Hindustan'?
> > Again, apologies for nagging you.
> > Cheers,
> > Zainab (confused gujju ben)
> >
> > On Dec 24, 2007 1:30 AM, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Isn't it rather a defeat of Hindu forces? Ask Praveen Togadia. Ask the
> > > RSS members discontented with Modi. Ask the guy giving Modi "Brahmin
> ka
> > > shaap" for getting his son murdered. Will another Hindu terrorist
> Advani
> > > be
> > > happy with the results? Is Uma Bharati pseudo secular or pseudo
> communal
> >
> > > for
> > > floating her own party against BJP?
> > > The fight in Gujarat was a fight between Hindus and Hindus if Hindus
> > have
> > > won, Hindus have
> > > lost too. So your victory gets canceled. Evil wins and evil loses.
> > > May be you will be more careful before putting your foot in to your
> > mouth
> > > next time.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Vedavati Jogi" < vrjogi at hotmail.com>
> > > To: <reader-list at sarai.net>; <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:20 AM
> > > Subject: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > whether it is a victory for bjp or for modi....its a  useless
> > question.
> > > > its a victory for hindus. and i hope it will be an eye opener for
> > psudo
> > > > seculars!
> > > >
> > > > you can't always divide hindus & rule. thank you gujjubhais for
> > showing
> > > > the world that when hindus unite, hindu vote bank too can be formed!
> > > >
> > > > vedavati
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
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-- 
OISHIK SIRCAR

Scholar in Women's Rights
Faculty of Law, University of Toronto

60 Harbord Street
Room 016 B
Toronto, ON M5S 3L1

oishiksircar at gmail.com
oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca

416.876.7926