[Reader-list] gujrat election

Wed Dec 26 10:18:38 IST 2007

OISHIK ...you stink

On 12/25/07, OISHIK SIRCAR <oishiksircar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Vedavati:
>
> Please shove your Hindu sentiments up your arse... take that from a Hindu
> brother of yours who had done that a long long time back... trust me it
> feels orgasmic... and once you get the hang of it... you'll keep doing it
> over and over again... shoving up the Hindu bullshit I mean...
>
> May be that should be your new year resolution...
>
> Good luck...
>
> Oishik
>
> P.S.: Apologies to other reader-list users for the purposeful use of a
> certain kind of language (cannot say whether it is indecent or not)... I
> know we need to confront radicalism with reason... and not drivel... but I
> hope to be excused this time... for the sake of the holiday season!
>
> On Dec 25, 2007 2:38 AM, Zainab Bawa <bawazainab79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Vedavati,
> > Thanks for a long response. I will definitely ask my Bengali 'Hindu'
> > brother-in-law (my blood sister's husband) what his sentiments are and
> how
> > I
> > can truly support him. But if he bangs the phone on me because he thinks
> I
> >
> > have lost my head, then I may need to ask for your help. I will also ask
> > my
> > Palakat Brahmin 'Hindu' ex-boyfriend from Kerala what his sentiments are
> > and
> > how I can truly support him but if he refuses to speak with me
> henceforth
> > because he harbours certain 'secular' (aiee pseudosecular) sentiments,
> > then
> > I may have to revert back to you. I shall also ask my variously 'Hindu'
> > colleagues in my Ph.D. programme if they have certain sentiments that I
> > can
> > support, I will certainly do that - by the way, there are Tamilians,
> > Kannadigas, Malayalis with me, each of whose kin and 'ancestors' harbour
> > different kinds of linguistic hatreds against each other, so perhaps I
> may
> >
> > have some task at hand in figuring out their sentiments, but surely I
> will
> > do what you have suggested.
> >
> > As for asking me to leave from here because no one has detained me, I
> > cannot
> > remember anywhere in my email where I have said I want to leave this
> > 'place'. For you, this 'nation' may be your place. For me, my hearth in
> > this
> > part of Bangalore is my 'place' as much as Bombay city is my 'place'.
> For
> > some of the folks at Sarai for example, Sarai is their 'place' that
> > happens
> > to be situated in 'Delhi' and some among them might own 'Delhi' as their
> > place while completely rejecting 'Delhi as the national capital place'.
> > 'Place' and the feeling of 'place' are not fixed notions and they emerge
> > from time to time. For instance my relative in Bharatnagar slum and her
> > neighbours who have  been living there for donkey's years are now being
> > 'displaced' because builders want to build large complexes there. Her
> > statements to me and some of my colleagues and friends was "this is my
> > place
> > and I am not going to leave it." I don't think they care about Hindustan
> > or
> > India or Bharat when they are being 'displaced' for some wonked,
> euphoric
> > imagination of the city.
> >
> > It is extremely easy for you and for some of the people on this list to
> > finally react and say 'go back to Pakistan' as if 'Pakistan' were the
> last
> > refuge for 'pseudosecular' 'non-compliant with mainstreamism' 'Muslims'.
> > Is
> > there anything beyond this that you can say? And what is that 'Pakistan'
> > that you are asking 'us' (though I strongly disagree with this)
> 'Muslims'
> > to
> > go to? What is your imagination of that Pakistan that you are
> 'condemning'
> >
> > 'us' to?
> >
> > Truly,
> > Zainab
> > P.S. You might want also perhaps refresh my memory of what Godhra riots
> > caused the riots in Mumbai. And also, how were the people of Mumbai
> > concerned with a temple being built in place of a mosque. I know for
> sure
> > that my father could not care whether a temple or mosque was being
> built.
> > All he cared about was his livelihood that was charred to rubble in Jan
> > 1993
> > for no position of his in a mandir-masjid issue.
> > P.S.2 I am not sure if Babar is really me ancestor. I don't have Persian
> > descent. I have some wonked Kutch-Gujarat descent/genes.
> >
> >
> > On Dec 25, 2007 12:12 PM, Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >  my dear zainab,
> > >
> > > nobody has detained you here. if you don't find india a good place to
> > live
> > > in you can anytime migrate to pakistan.
> > >
> > > muslims know how to complain, muslims know their rights well but they
> > > never understand their responsibilities.they never understand their
> own
> > > mistakes.
> > >
> > > (1)who had started 1992-93 riots? who first burnt karsevaks at godhra
> > > station?
> > > even after partitioning this country on religious basis muslims were
> > > allowed to stay in india, given equal rights rather more rights- was
> is
> > not
> > > a magnonimity shown by hindus?
> > >
> > > id you reciprocate?
> > > did you allow your hindu brothers to build  ram temple at the place
> > where
> > > babri structure once stood?
> > >
> > > if you too are the sons of this soil, why do you have to look upon
> babar
> > > and not ram as your ancestor? babar was an invader. and i don't think
> > > any country on this earth has ever taken pride for invader's deeds.
> > >
> > > (2)you know it very well that madarasa educated child cannot compete
> > with
> > > other children who are trained in secular schools. moreover nobody has
> > > stopped muslims from sending their wards to govt. run schools.
> > > still you send your chidren to madarasa and then complain that they
> > don't
> > > get jobs anywhere because they are muslims,.... hence 'sacchar'....
> > hence
> > > demand for reservations..!
> > >
> > > (3)if muslim women are the poorest of the poor then that is because of
> > > your own personal laws. why don't you accept uniform civil code?
> > >
> > > (4)there are many towering personalities in various fields in  india
> who
> >
> > > are muslims and  are very much loved by hindus. they never faced any
> > > descrimination just because they are muslims, then why this 'false
> > > propaganda' which separates you from main stream? think over it if
> > possible.
> > >
> > > (5)you have rightly pointed out that no action has been taken against
> > > those hindus who participated in 92-93 riots, and i am sure in future
> > also
> > > nobody even sonia becomes pm, will dare to take action against hindu
> > > culprits because these politician do everything to garner votes. why
> > muslim
> > > appeasement? not for the betterment of muslims but for the sake of
> > votes.
> > > now hindu votebank has been created in gujrat so nobody will dare to
> > take
> > > action against 2002 culprits.  this is politics!
> > >
> > > try to understand this. don't trust these politicians & seculars,
> > instead
> > > trust your hindu brothers who are truely secualr if not provoked, join
> > hands
> > > with them, join the mainstream for nation building.
> > >
> > > if you want muslim sentiments to be taken care of then try to care for
> > > hindu sentiments too.
> > >
> > > vedavati
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > > Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:45:46 +0530
> > > From: bawazainab79 at gmail.com
> > > To: vrjogi at hotmail.com
> > > Subject: Re: FW: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> > > CC: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net
> > >
> > >
> > > My dear Vedavati, When you say "modi  does not 'reserve'
> seats  instead
> > he
> > > talks about '5 crore gujratis (including bc/obcs/muslims)' . he does
> not
> > > equate soharabuddin & common muslims, hence he does not hesitate to
> take
> >
> > > stern action against the former because he knows  that will not hurt
> > > muslim sentiments anyway." I don't think there are any sentiments left
> > > after brutal rape, violence and torture. When the soul is killed and
> > when
> > > you have to live in duress under a 'secular rule' where each day you
> are
> > > reminded that you 'are Muslim' (irrespective of whether that is your
> > primary
> > > identity or not), you think there can be any sentiment or voice left?
> > What
> > > do you have to say to the fact that all 'Muslims' who participated in
> > the
> > > 1992-93 riots in Bombay were punished by the judiciary but no action
> was
> > > taken against the 'Hindus' who committed violences because Maharashtra
> > > government under amoeba Deshmukh felt that doing so will result in
> mass
> > > violence? I am sure this is a very peaceful and secular state to be
> > in,one
> > > where even when there are no sentiments, they are assumed to be
> aligned.
> >
> > > In peace,
> > > Zainab (gujju ben)
> > >
> > > On Dec 24, 2007 11:32 AM, Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > dear zainab,
> > >
> > > 'india is a secular country and will remain a secular country only
> > because
> > > of majority community (that is hindus)'. otherwise 99% muslims who had
> > voted
> > > for pakistan in 1947 would not have dared to stay  in india after
> > partition.
> > > they chose to stay back because their daily bread & butter was here
> not
> > > because they were supporting 'secularism'.
> > >
> > > congress too followed british policy of divide & rule after 1947.
> > > they gave reservations to bc, obcs, by reserving few thousands of
> seats
> > > they fooled crores of bcs & obcs and divided hindus.
> > >
> > > there are many towering personalities from muslim community in india
> > like
> > > dr. kalam, bismilla khan, zakir hussain, shahruhk, amir khan, irfan
> > pathan,
> > > amjad ali and many more... all of them come from ordinary background
> and
> > > are very very popular among hindus. still congress & left parties
> talked
> > > about descrimination, indirectly gave the slogan of 'islam khatareme
> > hai' ,
> > > showed carrot of 'suchhar' to muslims to keep their muslim vote bank
> > > intact.  they can't hang afzal guru because that might hurt muslim
> > > sentiments.
> > >
> > > modi  does not 'reserve' seats  instead he talks about '5 crore
> gujratis
> >
> > > (including bc/obcs/muslims)' . he does not equate soharabuddin &
> common
> > > muslims, hence he does not hesitate to take stern action against the
> > former
> > > because he knows that will not hurt muslim sentiments anyway.
> > >
> > > this secularism practised by congress & likes has always been at the
> > > expense of hindus. terrorists are attacking temples & trains still
> > -congress
> > > is talking about 'liberalism', they create hue & cry when person like
> > > soharabuddin is killed. they have talked a lot about 'gujrat' killings
> > what
> > > about 'kashmiri pundits'?
> > >
> > > gujjubhais  have proved that hereafter hindus cannot be taken for
> > granted.
> > > that is why it is their victory!
> > >
> > > vedavati
> > >
> > >
> > >  ------------------------------
> > > Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:04:12 -0800
> > > From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> > > To: bawazainab79 at gmail.com
> > > CC: vrjogi at hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >  Hi,
> > >
> > > You need to understand a simple thing - it is Hindus who are facing
> the
> > > problem of communalism on their own motherland..
> > > Narendra Modi is a strong Hindu supporter... And when I say Hindu, it
> is
> > > to be understand that the world Humanity is already enveloped in it..
> > > So, when Narendra Modi has won it is Hindus who have won.. in other
> > words,
> > > it is humanity that has won..
> > >
> > > Muslims has yet to prove their nationalist approach..Muslims gather in
> > big
> > > mass when there is anything related to their religion...
> > > But there is not a single movement by Muslims when Hindus get killed
> in
> > > Terrorist attacks...
> > > Muslims shout like anything for 2002 riot... But none has ever said a
> > word
> > > about Nandigram, Kashmir or Achalpur (Oct 2007 riot)...
> > >
> > > Whenever Muslims will come on Road to declare that Terrorist are
> Muslims
> >
> > > but not Quranic followers, whenver Muslims would do some roadshow to
> > make
> > > the world realize that Terrorist and Muslim are two different set of
> > > people.. Whenever Muslim would oppose what is written on irf.net that
> > all
> > > Muslims are terrorists and they should be proud of it.. Whenever
> Muslims
> > > will understand that crime is to be dealt with law and not
> religion....
> > THEN
> > > Narendra Modi's win would be all people's win...
> > >
> > > Don't you think that India is secular because it yet contains majority
> > of
> > > Hindus... can you say Kashmir is secular.. we will soon know West
> Bengal
> >
> > > becoming another Kashmir..
> > > Why is that wherever Muslims exists (and if there is no strict law to
> > > handle them)..there is killing, hatred and voilence...
> > >
> > > Muslims have to rethink on their learnings of Quran... Declaring Quran
> > as
> > > words of God and then putting killing into action in the name of same
> > God is
> > > not justifiable.. For hundreds of years this is what is happening
> > through
> > > our Muslims brothers... It is they who have intruded in the nation of
> > > Hindus, Hindus have not gone into Arabia to indulge into what they
> used
> > to
> > > do there....  Yet, Hindus call them brothers...  The day Muslim will
> > start
> > > calling Hindus as brothers... the day Muslims would start respecting
> the
> >
> > > mother (cow) of their brothers.. the Muslim would join the festivals
> of
> > > their brothers...  the secularism would meet its meaning....
> > >
> > > Muslims have to realize that 2002 riot would not have taken place, had
> > > Godhra would not have taken place...
> > > Muslims have to realize that Vande Matram and Jai Hind is what is
> > expected
> > > from their month....
> > >
> > > I hope I am clear on why Hindus believe Narendra Modi's win is Hindus
> > > win...
> > >
> > > Jai Hind,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Zainab Bawa <bawazainab79 at gmail.com>
> > > To: TaraPrakash < taraprakash at gmail.com>
> > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net; Vedavati Jogi < vrjogi at hotmail.com >
> > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 8:34:38 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> > >
> > > Hi Vedavati,Thanks for the forceful clarification. I am still a bit
> > > unclear
> > > as to why Modi's victory is a victory for Hindus? as for formation of
> > > Hindu
> > > votebanks, there are several of them across the country and as you
> > > yourself
> > > have accepted that just as all Gujjus are not Hindus, so also all
> Hindus
> >
> > > are
> > > not Hindus.
> > > I really apologize for my dimwitedness and my inability to understand
> > your
> > >
> > > claim that Modi's victory is a victory for Hindus. Are you suggesting
> > that
> > > Modi's victory is now a step ahead in the formation of 'Hindustan'?
> > > Again, apologies for nagging you.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Zainab (confused gujju ben)
> > >
> > > On Dec 24, 2007 1:30 AM, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Isn't it rather a defeat of Hindu forces? Ask Praveen Togadia. Ask
> the
> > > > RSS members discontented with Modi. Ask the guy giving Modi "Brahmin
> > ka
> > > > shaap" for getting his son murdered. Will another Hindu terrorist
> > Advani
> > > > be
> > > > happy with the results? Is Uma Bharati pseudo secular or pseudo
> > communal
> > >
> > > > for
> > > > floating her own party against BJP?
> > > > The fight in Gujarat was a fight between Hindus and Hindus if Hindus
> > > have
> > > > won, Hindus have
> > > > lost too. So your victory gets canceled. Evil wins and evil loses.
> > > > May be you will be more careful before putting your foot in to your
> > > mouth
> > > > next time.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Vedavati Jogi" < vrjogi at hotmail.com>
> > > > To: <reader-list at sarai.net>; <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:20 AM
> > > > Subject: [Reader-list] gujrat election
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > whether it is a victory for bjp or for modi....its a  useless
> > > question.
> > > > > its a victory for hindus. and i hope it will be an eye opener for
> > > psudo
> > > > > seculars!
> > > > >
> > > > > you can't always divide hindus & rule. thank you gujjubhais for
> > > showing
> > > > > the world that when hindus unite, hindu vote bank too can be
> formed!
> > > > >
> > > > > vedavati
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> > > ------------------------------
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> > >
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>
>
>
>
> --
> OISHIK SIRCAR
>
> Scholar in Women's Rights
> Faculty of Law, University of Toronto
>
> 60 Harbord Street
> Room 016 B
> Toronto, ON M5S 3L1
>
> oishiksircar at gmail.com
> oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca
>
> 416.876.7926
> _________________________________________
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