[Reader-list] shuddhabratas response

[Taraprakash]

I am surprised that these mails are appearing days after the unfortunate mails which caused these responses were written. I had expressed my views as soon as I read Shuddha's mail. But the mail never reached the list. I wrote to Shuddha but the mail was never acknoledged. The mail is also pasted below today's message. I strongly object any generalization about a religion, caste or culture on the basis of an individual. Bongs should not have been dragged in to the mess. We could have avoided quoting the unfortunate words which occurred in Abhik's deplorable mail. I still maintain that bullying someone, even if off list, on an issue related to an issue raised on list, cannot be condoned. There could have been other ways of expressing displeasure.

The following is my mail which has thus far failed to reach the list.
Dear Shuddha and all. The message that started this mess was quite
insensitive and unscientific in its approach. And so were some responses,
like one that linked invention of the computer and scientific thinking to
Christianity. Scientific development could be possible in the west only
after the discovery of pagan (not Christian) learning, (renaissance). What
we today consider facts caused many people their lives, people with
scientific thinking were burnt alive as heretics. Even today in the name of
the religion people are not being allowed contraceptives; there is a very
influential lobby in the US trying to ban abortion. Religion is a big
headache for gay and lesbian activists. I am not sure what do various
scriptures say about above mentioned issues, but I don't practice any
religion so know these religions from their practitioners only. It was done
all in the name of religion: Crusades between Christians and Muslims,
hanging and burning of the practitioners of (black magic) science, slave
trade, colonization and suppression of various cultures and languages,
Partition of India and violence related to it, demolition of the mosque and
the riots thereafter, Massacre in Gujarat, and blogs giving a ranking as to
which religion is more violent/terrorist. (My knowledge of history is really
poor). I am not afraid of hell, dozakh or nark ... so I would like to say
that religions should be banned from the public sphere.

I know there can be some rude messages in response to my message but this is
my opinion and I don't want any flaming even off list, even if Shuddha may
not consider it violation of list etiquettes. I beg to differ from the
following opinion/ruling of Shuddha

"Abhik Samanta has written in his private capacity to Vedavati, and not
on the list. So his post (no matter how objectionable and misogynist its
content may be, which I think it is, even though I can understand his
outrage at Vedavati's clear act of hate speech) is not technically a
breach of list etiquette."

It might give precedence to a wrong practice. There are better ways of
expressing your displeasure, showering obcenities, even if off list, on a
member for an issue related to the list, should not be condoned. Writing
objectionable mails to the members off list in order not to violate the list
etiquettes is, in my opinion, akin to american government kid-napping people
and harassing them away from the main land so as to avoid the law of the
land. I deplore such practice.

I am quite new to this list so not sure what the Hindutva-vadis have been
doing in the past, but if someone is insensitive again and again why not ban
that person or tell that person that such mails will not be allowed on the
list? it is technologically possible to ban specific IP addresses, or mails
with specific words in the body. Then individuals can create message rules
in their e mail clients to ban such individuals, IP addresses or mails.
Shouting obscenities is the worst, rather no solution at all.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" <
shuddha at sarai.net>

To: <
reader-list at sarai.net>

Cc: <
abhikauliya at googlemail.com>

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] vedavati thought you would like "wrap the body of
muslim terrorist with pig skin"

> Dear All,
>
> Let me clarify at the very beginning that I find the contents of the
> exchange between Vedavati and Abhit (which we have all been subjected to
> because of Vedavati's forward, with comment, of Abhik's off list email
> to her) sad and deplorable. While Abhik's language betrays an
> unfortunate misogyny, Vedavati's postings and responses are not exactly
> exemplars of liberality and tolerance.
>
> This is not the first time that Vedavati Jogi has posted material on
> this list that many on this list will find objectionable, just as there
> are many others on this list who post material that Vedavati, and
> perhaps some others on this list might have found objectionable. We have
> had other instances such as this in the past with others as well. The
> history of a list such as this grows to accommodate all manner of
> eccentricities, and that is a sign of the health and robustness of a
> free and open electronic space. It is in the nature of an unmoderated
> (that is uncensored) list such as this, that some people will use the
> platform to post material that many of us will consider reprehensible.
> However, I would suggest that one way to respond to such provocation is
> also to not necessarily dignify every such provocation with a response.
>
> Abhik Samanta has written in his private capacity to Vedavati, and not
> on the list. So his post (no matter how objectionable and misogynist its
> content may be, which I think it is, even though I can understand his
> outrage at Vedavati's clear act of hate speech) is not technically a
> breach of list etiquette.
>
> Vedavati's reply to Abhik which is addressed both to Abhik and to the
> list is however a clear case of someone dragging what is essentially a
> private exchange between two people on to the public space of the list.
> Doing so,without asking for the permission of the concerned persons (and
> there is no indication that she has asked Abhik) is a clear breach of
> list eitquette.
>
> As a list member, I would advise all other list members (including
> Vedavati, and Abhik) to try and refrain from blowing this issue out of
> proportion. I personally find the sentiments that Vedavati is asking us
> to consider (in the blog whose url she has forwarded) pathetic.
>
> I personally think that the real power of Hindutva-vadis lies in their
> ability to hog public attention. Just ignore what is said by
> Hindutva-vaids , be amused, at best by the sad level of the arguments
> and the rhetoric that they put forward, and see how powerful your
> unwillingness to pay attention to their agenda can be.
>
> I hope this puts an end to what might become an otherwise unpleasant
> distraction on this busy list.
>
> regards,
>
> Shuddha
>
>
>
> Vedavati Jogi wrote:
>> this shows your level mr. abhik!
>>
>> when you people curse hindutv forces especially rss & family, we should
>> not
>> react
>> but when we talk about muslim terrorism you can't tolerate moreover you
>> use
>> such a dirty language ...is it democracy? is it secularism?is it
>> liberalism?
>>
>> vedavati
>>
>>
>>>From: "Abhik Samanta" <
abhikauliya at googlemail.com>

>>>To: vedavati <
vrjogi at hotmail.com>

>>>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] vedavati thought you would like "wrap the body
>>>of muslim terrorist with pig skin"
>>>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 00:01:43 +0530
>>>
>>>depraved and poor deprived girl   wats the use of wasting time thinkin
>>>shit
>>>dont u have anyone to fuck
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