[Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges

[Partha Dasgupta]

Hi,

Without trying to imply that Pawan's view-point is justified, I can
understand his angst of being a displaced Hindu minority in a state which he
can no longer visit in peace.

And, to make another jump, these segregations of 'pseudo-secularist' or
'Islamo-fascism' or even 'Hindutva' seem rather dangerous categorizations to
me. How does a viewpoint force us into one camp or another? They are
reasoned and / or believed views. For example, though I would condemn Modi
for the Godhra riots, I would also have to admit that the frequent
Hindu-Muslim riots that would happen while I was in college in Baroda are no
longer so common.

To get back to the point raised by Shuddha, I still oppose state-sponsored
and / or state-endorsed violence fo reasons that I've mentioned elsewhere so
I won't drag this post.

Rgds, Partha
...........................

On Nov 30, 2007 6:12 PM, Shivam Vij <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:

> Well the connection is, 'Look you are obsessed with Gujarat but not with
> Saudi Arabia'. It assumes that one condones oppression and violence when
> it
> comes to "Muslims" and one is thus a "pseudo-secularist". Shuddha has
> demolished it well. Those who accuse others of pseudo-secularism are in
> fact
> themselves guilty of partisan obsessions with oppression. Funny how they
> seek to transpose their bias onto others.
> shivam
>
>
> On 11/30/07, anuradha mukherjee <anu.mukh at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think Shuddha's reply has summed it up beautifully. Why should a
> > horrible
> > incident in Saudi Arabia be brought up to shame those who are against a
> > particularly violent form of Hindutva being practised in India? What is
> > the
> > connection?
> > Best
> > Anuradha
> >
> >
> > On 11/30/07, shuddha at sarai.net <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Pawan,
> > >
> > > Hell comes in different flavours, as I tried to explain in an earlier
> > > post,
> > > and as is evident from your posting of the brutal treatment meted out
> to
> > a
> > > young woman who has been the victim of gang rape in Saudi Arabia.
> > >
> > > Being against one kind of hell does not mean that we have to be the
> > > partisans of other kinds of hell, elsewhere. The kind of intellectual
> > that
> > > I find interesting it the one who has no problem at all in terms of
> > > evolving an engaged critique of oppression, no matter what form it
> > takes,
> > > no matter where it occurs. That is why, despite our respect for people
> > > like
> > > Noam Chomsky, some of us took it upon ourselves to sharply criticize
> his
> > > prevaricating apology for the 'Left Front' government's violence
> against
> > > its own subjects in West Bengal
> > >
> > > And so, contrary to your expectations, some of those of us who have
> been
> > > active on this list in arguing against the Indian state's military
> > > occupation of the Kashmir valley have had no problems at all in being
> > > determined in our opposition to oppression when it occurs in Left
> Front
> > > ruled West Bengal, in the current conditions of military dictatorship
> in
> > > Burma and Pakistan, or for that matter when it occurs under the aegis
> of
> > > the Ibn Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Tomorrow, if North Korea were to
> > be
> > > discussed on this list, I would be certain that there will be clear
> > > arguments on this list against the imbecilic regime that rules North
> > Korea
> > > at the moment. The list can be justifiedly expanded to include Iran,
> the
> > > United States, Russia and many other countries and states.
> > >
> > > Saudi Arabia is one of the most horrible places on the planet. It is
> > ruled
> > > by a corrupt, decadent ruling elite and kept in place by money,
> weapons
> > > and
> > > influence wielded by British and American corporate intersts and
> foreign
> > > policy. If the international community was justified in operating a
> set
> > of
> > > sanctions against the hated South African apartheid regime, it should
> > have
> > > no business in cosying up to the sexist, slave-owning, xenophobic,
> > > anti-semitic Saudi regime which is the favourite retirement support
> > agency
> > > of third rate dictators like Idi Amin and corrupt rulers like Nawaz
> > > Sharif.
> > >
> > > The Saudi Monarchy, which rose to eminence as the stooge of British
> > > foreign
> > > policy in the middle east in the early twentieth century presides over
> > an
> > > imbecilic and paranoid gloss of Islam, and the particularly Salafist
> > brand
> > > of Islam that is held out as an ideal by the Saudi monarchy and its
> > rented
> > > clerics is rightly rejected by the majority of Muslims in the world.
> Its
> > > significance lies only in that it is backed by petro-dollars and
> > American
> > > fighter jets.
> > >
> > > One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia to the
> > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of
> > abominations
> > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I would be
> > > just
> > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as I
> > would
> > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat and
> in
> > > India.
> > >
> > > regards.
> > >
> > > Shuddha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2:13 pm 11/30/07 "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Would Someone Puhleez link this to Modi , RSS & Hindutva
> > > > ..........some intellectual surely would ..............
> > > >
> > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/
> > > >
> http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/rape-victim-ordered-200-lashes-and
> > > > -prison-by-saudi-judges/
> > > > What can be called a travesty of judiciary, the Saudi Arabia's
> Higher
> > > > Judicial Council has actually sentenced a rape victim to receive 200
> > > > lashes and prison while the perpetrators of humanity's most heinous
> > > > crime were allowed to walk free.
> > > >
> > > > The 19-year-old Shiite woman who was raped by six armed men was
> > > > originally sentenced to receive 90 lashes for traveling in the car
> of
> > > > an 'unrelated male' at the time of the rape. However after the woman
> > > > had the temerity of not unquestioningly submitting herself to be
> > > > tortured as punishment of being raped, the judges on Saudi Arabia's
> > > > Higher Judicial Council more than doubled her punishment for
> > > > attempting to influence the judiciary through the media.
> > > >
> > > > Her lawyer, human right activist Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, has been
> > > > banned from carrying her case further. His license has been revoked
> > > > and he has been called to appear before a disciplinary committee for
> > > > challenging the judgment, which only punished the victim of the
> crime
> > > > and not its perpetrators. The Sunni rapists were given a paltry
> > > > sentence of one to five years of imprisonment.
> > > >
> > > > This is the horrendous state of a country that keeps its women
> > > > forcefully behind veils only to extenuate and encourage heinous
> > > > crimes against them in the name of maintaining social discipline.
> > > > _________________________________________
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-- 
Partha Dasgupta
+919811047132