[Reader-list] Reply to junaid mails on Invasion of Indian culture

[Partha Dasgupta]

Dear Dhatri,

Once again you jump around the debate on a tangent which has no relevance to
what Junaid had mentioned. Also, since Sarai is a public forum for debate,
we all raise issues here - like the one you had raised about Zero being
discovered by India.

In any case, to go back to the points you raised.

1.   Jammu & Kashmir being a "Hindu" kingdom.
      If you are referring to the rulers being 'Hindu', then Junaid has
shown you the fallacy.
      If you refer to the majority being 'Hindu' then that to is a fallacy.
Firstly because J&K
      has a large Muslim population as well as Tribals. I presume you are
aware that a
      'Hindu' is one who believes in the trinity of Bramha, Vishnu and Shiva
- and that
      tribals follow Yakshas and Yakhsis - which means that they are not
'Hindu'.
      Further, India is not a 'Hindu' country. The only Hindu nation I'm
aware of is Nepal.

      And as you must be aware, the Hindu king there has caused much pain
and death
      till there was a public revolt.

      The 'India' you are referring to pre-independence was actually a
non-federation of
      independents rulers (who would more often than not be warring and
looting other
      kingdoms).

      And if you really want to go that far back, shouldn't  'India' reject
all tribes but the
      Dravid's who are the original inhabitants of this geographical place.

      By your logic of everyone being 'migrants', then all races in India
other
      than Dravid's are migrants. So, are you going to give up your claim to
India?

      More importantly, you seem to continuously get confused between
religion and
      the region of people. If for example a Bengali converts to Buddhism,
would you
      insist on sending him to Japan (even though Buddhism's roots are in
India) or
      if he converted to being a Muslim does that change the fact that he's
still a
      Bengali?

     I do hope you have read up on Indian history and discovered that many
INDIAN
     people converted to Islam because of oppression by caste. They are
still residents
     of India with an equal right to vote or express their opinion.



2.   You use Wikepedia as a reference (and so do I). However, as an IT
professional am
      aware that Wikepedia is a collective effort where anyone can make a
post. And that
      the veracity of information there is not complete - which is why it
gives references to
      places it has used information from as 'probable' history.



3.   The article you've mentioned about the Kohinoor makes it very clear
that most of it's
      sources are rumours and hearsay - which is why the mention conflicting
sources and
      claims so that the reader is open to make his / her interpretation. It
also makes it clear
      that ownership claims have been made by India, Pakistan, Afghanistan
and Iran as the
      actual origin is a matter of historical dispute.


4.   From what I understood of Junaid's mail, he talked about the existence
and oppression
      of Muslims in the princely state of J&K (which didn't have much to do
with the Kohinoor
      or the Peacock Throne) which is why there was a revolt - much like
there is one in the
      Hindu nation of Nepal.


5.   From what little I've read and understood, Indian history and tradition
is a mix of Mughal,
      Mongol, Portugese, Dravid, Roman, Grecian, Aryan and a host of other
influences. The
      thought of India I have always loved as a secular nation (even before
independence,
      actually) that assimilated concepts and people - inclusive and
not exclusive.
If you
      really are a follower of Indian tradition then look at how we
inculcated all these influences
      (including English as an official language!) and used it to grow and
move forward instead
      of closing our minds.


Finally, are we looking at a resolution, are are we insistent upon staying
enveloped in blind hate that shouts down everything except our angst
irrespective of the logic. Maybe Juniad's angst is not as recent as yours,
but it does exist, as does yours.

So, what do we do? Keep fighting on small irrelevant issues like the
Kohinoor or look at a way to resolve the larger issue that is causing so
much pain, death and misery?

What's more important?

If you still think that your mail was not off on a tangent from the issues
raised by Junaid, please fell free to correct me. However, I could not find
any link between the points raised by Junaid and your response, or any facts
behind your claims (with even Wikepedia making it abundantly clear that it
can not verify sources).

Rgds, Partha
.............................

On 10/13/07, we wi <dhatr1i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Partha,
>
> Why SARAI was being chosen as an avenue to gossip and rumour about JAMMU
> and KASHMIR?
>
> Junaid writings are clearly objectionable because of many reasons.  Among
> them let me pinpoint
>
> 1)    Hindu kings did this, that against whatever so called Muslim
> population?
>
> Clearly Jammu and Kashmir is a HINDU KINGDOM like wise many kingdoms and
> kings and so as then population and culture.
>
> Let me ask you in a country/kingdom where there exists only HINDUS(by any
> time), if anybody else exists aren't they migrants? What do they be called?
> Instead of living peacefully why would they continue attacking heritage and
> culture?
> If they started doing things in wrong way how will authorities
> react?  Going further If they continue ransacking by misusing the liberty
> What to do?
>
>
>
> 2)  PEACOCK THROWN was built with *Koh-i-Noor.*  The history of kohinoor
> is!
>
>       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koh-i-Noor.
>
>      Junaid clearly do not know this.  With lack of knowledge like this he
> is writing on SARAI.
>
> Forget the manners but the schools they studied taught wrong lectures, the
> atmosphere they grew taught -ve and violence. Did they question themselves
> before doing any such -ve,violent acts?  for just 1000 years of history and
> existence they are shouting like this then for being own the history and
> existence of unmeasurable age how Hinduism/India/Indians/Hindu followers
> should feel about and react???
>
>  I can produce sin,cos and cotangents also if you QUOTE my replies are
> unrelated tangent.  But if you look at mails on SARAI list, they are in such
> a provoking way that atleast I could not show lenience.  By writing like
> this I just invest 5 minutes of my writing and 30 minutes of surfing time.
>
>
>  So junaid comments on
> 1) JAMMU & KASHMIR with its culture and population then and KASHMIR
> PUNDITS (now)is totally wrong.
> 2) ISLAM is a myth just.
>  Not only junaid but many are doing the same.
>
> I am just an ordinary person and with the above justification hope you
> will not use the word unrelated tangent again.
>
> Regards,
> Dhatri.
>
>
> *Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> Dear Dhatri,
>
> One of the reasons we were asked off the list for two weeks was that you
> keep going off on unrelated tangents.
>
> Please, please stick to replying to points raised in the current post, and
> if you wish to respond to another post, then do it on that post and not any
> one that you happen to click on.
>
> Rgds, Partha
>
> On 10/12/07, we wi <dhatr1i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Junaid,
> >
> >            Though people are busy in false accusations,interpretations
> > and assaults on INDIA, Its culture and to support this there is no need to
> > argue endlessly, but to enlighten people like you  who are doing
> > intentionally,   I am writing this again.
> >
> >                I used enlighten because either
> >
> >                      1) You don't know about Indian history and
> > culture-- to support this is I prefer to use your earlier comments on
> > PEACOCK THROWN.   I request you to go through
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koh-i-Noor,
> >                      2) If you spread rumors purposefully, then I remind
> > you that you will not succeed like Pakistan and China.  Indian heritage is
> > rich and culture is widespread across the globe.  Every HINDU home contain,
> > atleast few ancestral,cultural,spiritual,traditional wealths/residue
> > whatever you say.
> >
> >                        From the beginning of its origin to the present,
> > ISLAM produced violence that is the fact though its unfortunate and so as
> > people. So violent in thoughts leave 1/2 exceptional cases for whatever
> > reasons .  You can say whatever but ISLAM IS MIGRATION TO INDIA. Please just
> > keep it in mind.
> >
> >   Regards,
> >   Dhatri.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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>
>
>
> --
> Partha Dasgupta
> +919811047132
>
>
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-- 
Partha Dasgupta
+919811047132