[Reader-list] By R.J. Rummel

[Shuddhabrata Sengupta]

Dear Tapas,

I do not disagree with you at all. In fact you have said what I would 
have wanted to say much better than I could have said it, and with 
greater clarity than I could muster. My hunches in this matter are not 
far from what you say. But that is my personal opinion.

That being said, neither you, nor I, can read into the interiority of 
another person, so judgements about motive, are at best, speculative, if 
not borne out by the unfolding of actual events, even if they are 
speculative in an informed sense. So, in a sense, the jury is out on 
that statement, it depends on what we in hindustani call 'aage aage hota 
hai kya'. (on what lies ahead)

There is a public record, and Yasin Malik has made some statements on 
the public recrod. That is a fact. The absence of a corresponding 
apology from the 'other side' is also a fact.

What prompted Yasin Malik to make that statement, whom he made that 
statement for, which gallery he was playing to - all these are matters 
of speculation. And I am not interested in either extolling or 
rubisshing him. In fact I am not interested in him, or his motives, at all.

Going by the same logic. The representatives of the Indian state, too, 
could have, for the same set of audiences, that you point to, made a 
similar gesture. Instead, all that we have on record is Mufti's abysmal 
failure of the so called 'healing touch' policy, and Vajpayee's tepid 
response to it.

I hold, as I said, no brief for any one in the murky waters of Kashmir, 
least of all for Yasin Malik, but at least, in terms of savvy 
realpolitik (whichI repeat is not a substantive political judgement) he 
was, at the time when he made that declaration, ahead of his peers in 
New Delhi.

I hope I have made myself abundantly clear now.

regards

Shuddha


Tapas Ray wrote:
> Shuddha,
> 
> Is it possible that Yasin Malik's apology amounts, at least in part, to 
> playing to the gallery - to international "progressive" opinion through 
> the wonderful opportunity presented by the World Social Forum  - just as 
> the Army's initiatives "to win the hearts and minds" of the people of 
> Kashmir are, at least in part, playing to the gallery - to Kashmiris, as 
> well as to Western Governments that make noises about human rights abuse 
> in Kashmir while doing the same in places where they deploy their own 
> forces?
> 
> Now, if that is not a long and eminently unreadable sentence, I do not 
> know what is. Apologies, but this one is from the heart.
> 
> Tapas
> 
> 
> Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote:
> 
>>Dear Pawan,
> 
> 
>>However, I have heard Yasin Malik offer a regret and an apology for what 
>>happenned in Kashmir to the Pandits. And since such a statement was 
>>given at a public forum, at the World Social Forum in Mumbai I cannot, 
>>and will not disregard it, (incidentally there is a reader list thread 
>>of a discussion between me and Zainab on this issue, where again, issues 
>>to do with freedom of expression are raised), And once again, I 
>>reiterate, I have not heard any Indain Nationalist offer such an 
>>unconditional apology to the people of Kashmir, and until that happens, 
>>Yasin Malik, well, will have a better score card in the apology 
>>olympics. Pardon my flippant tone, but I do think apologies are 
>>important here. And no matter what I think or do not think of Yasin 
>>Malik, his apology will stand as a significant testimonial that we 
>>cannot ignore.
>>
>>To the best of my knowledge, Bitta Karatey has served time in prison 
>>from 1990 to October 2006, which is a total of 16 years in Prison. He is 
>>out at the moment on conditional bail, while trial proceedings continue. 
>>If he is found guilty of homicide in a free and fair trial, he should 
>>undoubtedly serve the time in prison that is necessary. I am not, like 
>>Rashneek, a believer in Capital Punishment, and I will not advocate 
>>capital punishment.
>>
>>Yasin Malik has had more several spells in prison, the first began when 
>>he was detained for one year under the Public Safety Act in 1987, he was 
>>later detained for seven years, including a long spell in Jodhpur 
>>Central Jail. Again, if he, or any other person is found guilty in a 
>>free  and fair trial of the homicide of non combatants then they should 
>>serve prison sentences for that offence.
>>
>>As for the deaths of Indian State and Armed Forces Personnel. Let me 
>>make my position clear. I am not a votary of pursuing politics by 
>>violence, no matter who does it. Not because I have a moral position vis 
>>a vis violence, but because I believe that the strategy of terror, no 
>>matter who pursues it, invariably leads to secretive, un-accountable and 
>>un-democratic politics, which leads to popular movements being corrupted 
>>and infiltrated by the very forces that they are opposing. I think this 
>>has happenned in Kashmir, and it happenned both because of the 
>>machinations of the Indian state and the political immaturity of the pro 
>>Azadi 'tanzeems' in Jammu and Kashmir, and in the Kashmiri diaspora.
>>
>>However, having said that, I recognize that Kashmir is a place that 
>>actually is in the midst of a protracted armed conflict, with a very 
>>powerful state imposing its will on a population on the basis of its 
>>military might.Let us not forget, that people like Yasin Malik made 
>>every effort to enter the peaceful, democratic, electoral process. Yasin 
>>Malik was a young election agent in the fatally rigged election in Jammu 
>>and Kashmir of 1987.
>>
>>It is the Indian State's sustained and continuing refusal to engage with 
>>the democratic aspirations and politics in Kashmir, that is primarily 
>>responsible for leading these young men (young at that time) towards 
>>militancy. Militancy for many of them was, and remains, a flawed, last 
>>option, but it was and is the only option offered to them by the 
>>Government of India.
>>
>>The first guns to be raised in Kashmir, in 1988, were not of the 
>>'militants', but of the CRPF, when an ordinary protest against an 
>>electricity failure on a cold winter night in 1988 turned into a bloodbath.
>>
>>This occurred before a single Pandit was killed. The first target of 
>>militancy were not Pandits, but political party personnel associated 
>>with a corrupt administration imposed, not through elections, but 
>>through fraud. You forget that the first targets are in fact political 
>>workers of the National Conference, beginning with the well known 
>>assasination of a block president of the National Conference, a man 
>>called Yusuf Halwai on the 21st of August, 1988. This is part of the 
>>historical record.
>>
>>The second assasination is of Tika Lal Taploo, the first Pandit to be 
>>attacked, on the 14th of September, 1988, not because he is a Pandit, 
>>but because he is J&K state BJP president, in the unlikely event of the 
>>BJP having a Muslim state president in J&K, I am sure it is he who would 
>>have been the target. This is followed by the assasination of Justice 
>>Ganjoo, remembered for handing down the death sentence on Maqbool Butt. 
>>Again, had the judge been a Muslim, he would have been a target.
>>
>>Then, after contiuning harsh reprisals by the state armed forces, come 
>>the selective assasinations of high ranking government servants and 
>>political figures, in which Muslims far outnumber Pandits. Several pro 
>>Azadi political figures are also killed in assasinations at this time, 
>>including Mirwaiz Farooq. By this time, it is quite unclear as to which 
>>agencies are involved, whom they owe alleigance to (pro Azadi elements, 
>>Pro Pakistan elements, agent provocateurs acting under orders from 
>>Indian intelligence agents - and with people switching patronage quite 
>>rapidly in a murky shadow play that continues in Kashmir, where a 
>>'militant' may be working for several different, antagonistic forces, 
>>all at once) in how many killings, targetting whom.
>>
>>I am deliberately here not detailing the history of massacres of unarmed 
>>crowds by Indian armed forces, including the famous Gawakadal Massacre 
>>on Gawakadal Bridge in Srinagar on January 20, 1990.
>>
>>If, however, as in any armed conflict, or occupation, the personnel of 
>>the armed services, and the echelons of the state of the occupying power 
>>get targetted by elements in the population who are resisting that 
>>occupation, I cannot but see that violence as a measure taken by a 
>>population to defend itself against the occupation. A measure whose 
>>political consequences may actually, tragically, backfire on the same 
>>population, through an exponential increase in the violence of that 
>>occupation. As it has done in Kashmir.
>>
>>As for the harrassment or violence to the persons or property of Pandits 
>>that occurred in the valley in the immediate period after 1989, I have 
>>no hesitation in condemning it, un-equivocally, no matter who did it. 
>>And it is upto those who conducted that violence to apologize for it, 
>>not me.
>>
>>I do know however, as has been shown in the dark and murky history of 
>>the Chattisinghpura massacre, that elements close to state power did 
>>enter the ranks of militants, or masqueraded as militants, and 
>>deliberately carried out some, (not all) of these massacres, in a well 
>>proven strategy to produce and sustain a climate of tension, and to 
>>persuade the Pandits to leave Kashmir. The experience of the 
>>infiltration, masquerade and creation of the spectacle of 'Red Terror' 
>>in the nineteen eighties and before in Italy, Belgium and elsewhere in 
>>Europe, under Operation Gladio, or the measured that have been used 
>>often in Turkey vis a vis the insurgency in Kurdistan, or the Israeli 
>>secret agencies role in the early days of Hamas, which are all well 
>>documented, and some of which I have written about elsewhere, are 
>>indicative of this process. The Indian state is not alone in pursuing 
>>these tactics.
>>
>>So, I am not confident that all the attacks on Pandits that happenned, 
>>such as those perpetrated by the groups who later became identified as 
>>'Ikhwanis' were not also engineered by what I have called the 'deep 
>>state' in India.
>>
>>For a fuller account of the 'Ikhwanis' and their activities please see
>>
>>A 'Human Rights Watch' Report of May 1996, Vol 8. No.4 (C)
>>http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/kashmir/1996/
>>
>>I will quote here only one statement from this report which says -
>>
>>"Many incidents of violence in Kashmir go unattributed and unpunished. 
>>The impunity enjoyed by the security forces for a wide range of abuses, 
>>and the murderous internecine battles among the various militant groups 
>>has created a climate of violence in which murder has become routine. By 
>>creating its own militias to fight the militant groups, India has 
>>fostered conditions bordering on anarchy in Kashmir. In many cases, it 
>>is impossible to know whether militants or state-sponsored paramilitary 
>>groups are behind particular acts of violence."
>>
>>Clearly, we need a fuller account of the events of the shadowy 1989 and 
>>post 1989 history of Kashmir before we begin apportioning blame for the 
>>attacks on Pandits. As of now, the secrecy that shrouds the Indian 
>>state's operations in Kashmir makes that difficult.
>>
>>One thing is clear, the Indian state inflicted enormous violence on non 
>>combatants in Kashmir from 1989 onwards. Would you now agree, Pawan, 
>>that for this violence, it needs to be held accountable, in terms that 
>>have been laid down in international law, as has happenned in Argentina 
>>and Central Africa, under the general category of 'Crimes against Humanity'?
>>
>>Let me finally state something quite simple. I do not care, whether, 
>>tomorrow, Kashmir becomes independent, stays with India, or is absorbed 
>>by Pakistan, or becomes part of some confederation of future Central 
>>Asian states, or becomes part of some joint arrangement between India 
>>and Pakistan. Whether the future rulers of Kashmir come from the 
>>Hurriyet, the JKLF, the National Conference, Panun Kashmir or some long 
>>lost descendent of Zainal Abedin, or Lalitaditya is of no concern to 
>>me.I hold no brief for any aspirant to power.
>>
>>It is actually not up to me to care which flags, or how many flags, or 
>>which combination of flags flies in Kashmir. It is upto the people of 
>>Kashmir, and I am constrained to respect whatever they choose, even if I 
>>am not in agreement with it. I am not a Kashmiri, I do not live in 
>>Kashmir. All I care about is, that whatever happens should have the 
>>consent of the majority of people who are Kashmiris and live in Kashmir, 
>>and that this consent should be ascertained by free and fair means in a 
>>manner that is transparent to the international community.
>>
>>I do however care about the fact that as an Indian citizen, the 
>>continued occupation of the Indian occupied part of Kashmir, happens in 
>>my name, without either my consent (and there are many like me) or the 
>>consent of the people so occupied. Hence, I, and all Indian citizens are 
>>being made complicit in this brutal occupation, unless we take a stand 
>>to the contrary. That is what I am doing. I am not interested in being 
>>made party to this continuing state of violence.
>>
>>I think that relationships between people in Kashmir and the rest of 
>>South Asia, which includes all of us who live in India can become 
>>normal, mutually affirming, generous and productive, if all Kashmiris 
>>(without exception) are allowed a say in what their future will be. As 
>>someone who is not a nationalist, I have no interest in providing the 
>>blueprint of a future Kashmiri nation state, or even endorsing a 
>>possible future Kashmiri nation state, but I do have an interest in 
>>trying to ensure that all and any people be free to choose their own 
>>destiny, and choose their own version of disaster or paradise, as they 
>>see fit, especially when the possibility of that choice is made 
>>difficult by a policy of rule that implicates me, as a citizen/subject 
>>of this Republic.
>>
>>I know that the first condition of that situation is a withdrawal of the 
>>armed forces of the Indian Republic from the Indian occupied part of 
>>Jammu and Kashmir and the withdrawal of the armed forces of the Islamic 
>>Republic of Pakistan from the territory held by them since 1948. What 
>>follows after this, is anyone's guess, and should be the subject of 
>>creative political imaginations,  but examples as banal and diverse as 
>>the recent histories of places as far flung as Bosnia-Herzegovina, 
>>Northern Ireland and East Timor do suggest that a variety of workable 
>>options can be found, which need not necessarily violate the consent of 
>>the local populations. What solutions are found in the interim, is again 
>>something that the people of Kashmir should be the first and last 
>>arbiters of.
>>
>>I hope I have made myself clear on this score.
>>
>>regards
>>
>>Shuddha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Pawan Durani wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Shuddha ,
>>>
>>>Since I have answered you , I wish you too have an answer for these two
>>>questions of mine
>>>
>>>1. Do you condemn Yasin malik and his likes like Bitta karate for their
>>>killings of Kashmiri pandit and Indian armed personels and do you want him
>>>to be bought to justice ?
>>>
>>>2. Do you condemn the killings of minorties in Kashmir ?
>>>
>>>In your own words "These are very simple question, and it has two very
>>>simple answers,either yes, or no. The maybe option does not exist,."
>>>
>>>Waiting for a simple answer.......Hope you do what you preach.
>>>
>>>Lastly , a bit of advise . Do not call Kashmir as "Occupied Kashmir" .
>>>
>>>Pawan Durani
>>>
>>>
>>>On 9/3/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dear Sen ,
>>>>
>>>>I belong to a community which has no history of violence. I belong to a
>>>>community which has never even picked up a stone to throw at somebody, leave
>>>>aside knives and guns.
>>>>
>>>>As a Kashmiri Hindu and as a responsible Indian , i do grieve at any
>>>>innocent life which is lost, whether it is in Kashmir , Darfur or
>>>>Afghanistan.And this is not a ststement I am giving you , this i told in
>>>>an interview to BBC & CNN -IBN even when we were protesting against Yasin
>>>>Malik when he sat with the families of missing people in Delhi.
>>>>
>>>>To a father, when his child dies, the future dies; to a child, when his
>>>>parents die, the past dies ; to a kashmiri when any innocent dies ; the
>>>>peace dies.
>>>>
>>>>IRegards
>>>>
>>>>Pawan Durani
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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