[Reader-list] Indo-centrism On Sarai

[Madhumita Lahiri]

Dear Swadhin,

I am not making a liberal proclamation. Perhaps the tone on this listserv
could be a bit more amicable and less antagonistic; it would certainly make
me more comfortable engaging in it!

Thank you for answering my question -- as to whether starting with a
linguistic unit of reference ('Bangla') works in harmful ways to erase
important differences (of history, state formations, etc) -- and your answer
seems to be an unambiguous yes (that such a move is harmful). Please notice,
however, when i speak of 'erasing differences' i do not assume that to be a
good thing or a bad thing -- and it does hurt my feelings to have liberalism
and the 'erasure of differences' attributed to me! That's not my project, my
sentiments, or contained in anything I wrote.

We all choose starting points for our work -- some are more productive and
some are more problematic. The tendency to focus always on the state is
something which i think has its own limitations; when i posted to the list
about Bangla, i was asking, what are the effects of taking a linguistic unit
as a starting point of inquiry, instead of always starting with a
state-based delineation? Which is not (and never -- hence my thoughts on the
complexity of South Asian language categories) to say that language can be
separated from geopolitical realities -- but that one has to choose
somewhere to start. Keeping Indocentricism and geopolitics in mind, how does
a cultural project work against them, where does one begin?

The Bangla material has allowed me to think about nation-formations (always
an imaginary identification and conception, as you point out) that are not
exactly coextensive with the state -- both in terms of Bengali identity
within India, which engages with governmentality at a non-national level,
and in terms of any/all cultural imaginings of something like a single
'Bongodesh' (I realize it looks funny in Roman script), which tend to work
around or beyond nation-state boundaries. My hope is not to fall on one side
or another on the question of WestBengal/Bangladesh distinctions, but to
chew on those differences for what they reveal -- about cultural
imaginaries, nations, states, and those of us who work on them. As to
whether such non-partiality is possible, i guess i'll find out when i
finish....

As for the availability of materials, which is always conditioned by
circumstances well beyond one's control, that is a problem i am getting to
know quite well! Suggestions are always welcome as to how to deal with the
question.

Yours,
Madhumita

On 9/12/07, Swadhin Sen <swadhin_sen at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Madhumita
>
>
>
> Although your mail addressed both me and Naeem, my personal sketchy
> remarks on your questions are as follows:
>
>
>
>
>
> BUT, the question is: To what extent do you feel that it is a valid move
> to (claim to) work in/on/about 'Bangla,' given that the project will tilt
> towards Indian films? Does the claiming of a linguistic category end up
> erasing important geopolitical and historical differences -- or does it
> work usefully against the seemingly pervasive insistence on state-based distinctions,
> which are only 60 years old in our context?
>
>  -         I do not endorse the position which assumes that 'linguistic
> categories' could be conceptually separated from 'geopolitical and
> historical' differences. I am skeptical about success of your intention to
> 'work in linguistic unit' (and not primarily geopolitical ones). I think the
> 'linguistic units' are enmeshed into 'geopolitical ones'. It does not matter
> whether our state based distinctions are 60 years old or not. Because, even
> before the partition, there were variations in the languages of West and the
> East (Now Bangladesh). I want to view language as a representative system in
> which question of power and authority are crucial for cultural and political
> transactions and translation. The variations of dialects of Bangladesh are
> stereotyped, homogenized and distorted in mainstream films and electronic
> media of West Bengal. Bhanu Bandopadhaya was pioneer in the sarcastic and
> comical representation of the dialect of East Bengal or East Pakisthan or
> present Bangladesh. The continuation of the same practice is common in
> Taliwood films and Soaps & variety shows in E-media of Kolkata.
>
> -         The question of whether a linguistic category end up erasing…
> differences' is not very interesting for me. Rather I am interested to
> question the conditions that destroy older categories and construct newer
> ones for legitimizing various ways and means of domination and control. Most
> notably, I think, the parties (or agents) involved with these
> reconfiguration processes are unequal in their power to borrow, insert and
> translate. 'State' (more precisely modern state) act as a universal
> condition in these unequal exchanges where 'we' (and you) cannot act as
> autonomous and sovereign subject (as it is usually taken for granted in
> liberal ideals).
>
> -         Now if I take India and Bangladesh (or west Bengal and
> Bangladesh) for example we may find that while we the Banglaeshis are
> optionless consumers of the film and media representations from Hindi and
> Bangla (kolkata version) domain, the people from the other part of the
> boundary are not. The statist conditions controlled by various legal and
> juridical and as well as ideological apparatuses do not give us (and you)
> any other options to choose from. You can't see the mainstream films and
> visual narratives produced in different mediums of Bangladesh. Your vision
> and horizons of arguments, thus, are subjected by inequality where we are
> active only in the selection from those which we are permitted to do.
>
> -         I contend that your question regarding the validity of working
> on/about Bangla films should be rethought from the above problematization.
>
> -         The inequality is also applicable within a state also. For
> example, in Bangladesh the ethnic nations (not tribes, or ethnic minorities)
> are subjected to the same statist and nationalistic processes of
> reconfigurations. They are bound to speak Bangla, but we are not bound to
> speak Chakma, Shaotali, Rakhain and many other languages.
>
> -         From a predominantly liberal terrain, we may optimistically
> believe in and call for the erasure of differences. But the complexly
> articulated state (and multicorporate) apparatus (from education sector to
> Job Market, from agricultural products to coca-cola) constructs newer
> differences and boundaries.
>
>
>
> Under these circumstances, I am not very much interested in some sort of
> liberal proclamation of erasing differences among languages, cultures and
> states. I am more hopeful about the critique of the formation differences.
>
>
>
> Interestingly, the affairs with Tasleema Nasreen can also be viewed in the
> framework of the inequality. I  think Naeem's points on Taslema were not
> taken into proper theoretical and political account by the members who
> responded with a predominant liberal world view of everything. I will try to
> address the issues in another mail.
>
>
> And what is one to do with the reality that South Asian language
> boundaries,somewhat like South Asian regional boundaries, are constantly
> shifting and responding to political imperatives, as well? (The Hindi/Urdu
> wallahs certainly know this one well!)
>
>
>
> -         I hope to touch upon this part of question in future. To comment
> briefly, the boundaries are being reconfigured and redefined (as I have
> argued above) off course. Unfortunately and apologetically I am not in a
> position to profess on what one should do about it!
>
>
>
> I hope this response will stir more arguments,
>
>
>
> Wishes
>
>
>
> Swadhin
>
>
>
>
>
> Swadhin Sen
> Archaeologist
> &
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Archaeology
> Jahangirnagar University
> Savar, Dhaka
> Bangladesh
> Ph. 88 01720196176 (mobile)
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Madhumita Lahiri <ml49 at duke.edu>
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:58:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Indo-centrism On Sarai
>
> Hi Swadhinji and Naeemji,
>
> I use the Hindi honorific because using no honorific at all feels
> unseemly.
>
> I wanted to interface a rather stupefying question i got yesterday -- from
> a
> smart young Indian-origin student at a prestigious US university:
>     "Is there a difference between Bengal and Bangladesh?"
> I answered yes (there is a geopolitical difference), then no (the cultures
> are not entirely separate), and then yes (but there are significant
> historical differences) and then just, what?
>
> Because the question, while seemingly simple, is a rather difficult one to
> tackle.
>
> I work on South Asian expressive culture -- particularly, the interface
> between popular film and what is thought of as 'high' literature -- and i
> work in Hindi, Bengali, and English. While my project is Indo-centric --
> because of a focus on the transnational reception of the Kolkata- and
> Bombay-based film industries -- as a student of language and literature i
> want to work in linguistic units, not primarily in geopolitical ones.
>
> BUT, the question is: To what extent do you feel that it is a valid move
> to
> (claim to) work in/on/about 'Bangla,' given that the project will tilt
> towards Indian films? Does the claiming of a linguistic category end up
> erasing important geopolitical and historical differences -- or does it
> work
> usefully against the seemingly pervasive insistence on state-based
> distinctions, which are only 60 years old in our context?
>
> And what is one to do with the reality that South Asian language
> boundaries,
> somewhat like South Asian regional boundaries, are constantly shifting and
> responding to political imperatives, as well? (The Hindi/Urdu wallahs
> certainly know this one well!)
>
> Best wishes, and hopeful for a response,
> Madhumita
>
>
> On 9/9/07, Swadhin Sen <swadhin_sen at yahoo.com > wrote:
> >
> > Dear all
> >
> > The ubiquitous silence of  the  sarai subscribers  about Naeem's mail is
> > noteworthy.
> >
> > 'Freedom of speech' is always entwined with the power relations. We may
> > send mails after mails to sarai. Yet, it doesn't mean that we will be
> heard.
> > In liberal version, the act of writing and act of speaking assumes the
> > action of other parties in taken for granted terms. The weak and
> > marginalized may be permitted to speak and write; but this agency
> doesn't
> > inhere the act of listening and consequent corrective measures.
> >
> > How will 'we', the non-Indians, interpret this action (in term of
> > refraining from acting and/or participating in the debate)?
> >
> > Thanking all,
> >
> > Swadhin
> >
> > Swadhin Sen
> > Archaeologist
> > &
> > Assistant Professor
> > Department of Archaeology
> > Jahangirnagar University
> > Savar, Dhaka
> > Bangladesh
> > Ph. 88 01720196176 (mobile)
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: S.Fatima < sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in>
> > To: Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com>; reader-list at sarai.net
> > Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2007 3:37:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Indo-centrism On Sarai
> >
> > No, no... we won't talk about Bangladesh and Pakistan.
> > Aren't those regions part of the Akhand Bharat. I hope
> > you know what akhand means. You better start learning
> > Hindi or else you would be branded anti-national. You
> > are a security threat to our Rashtra. You are a
> > Bangladeshi.
> >
> > (Sorry Naeem - that wasn't real me. I think being on
> > the Sarai list I am slowly turning into a Patriotic
> > Indian, which practically means being a Gaurav shali
> > Bharatiye and no longer respecting other cultures and
> > languages).
> >
> > By the way, they were exchanging Urdu couplets, not
> > Hindi. Since when has Urdu become Indian?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > There are many members of Sarai who are neither
> > > Indian, nor
> > > Hindi-speakers.  But Indian members of Sarai seem so
> > > oblivious to
> > > their Indo-centrism that they presume that we will
> > > be able to, or want
> > > to, follow debates that are at this point even
> > > written entirely in
> > > Hindi (I refer to recent posts where entire couplets
> > > are posted in
> > > Hindi w. no translation).
> > >
> > > This comes at the cost of many other debates that
> > > could possibly
> > > happen.  I've witnessed items posted regarding
> > > Bangladesh sinking
> > > without a trace/response.  Recently, particular
> > > "Indian" topics have
> > > generated hundreds of replies, drowning out all
> > > else.  The only time a
> > > Bangladeshi cultural producer (Taslima Nasreen) gets
> > > debated is when
> > > what is at stake is how she was treated in India.
> > > Only when Taslima
> > > is a vehicle to debate Hyderabad values, Indian
> > > secularism, etc does
> > > she become a person of interest.
> > >
> > > Bangladesh/Pakistan/or elsewhere in South Asia does
> > > enter into other
> > > discussions-- as a foil.  To insert immigration into
> > > the debate, and
> > > of course the ultimate insult that can be flung at
> > > Suddha is that "he
> > > is no longer in Bangladesh".
> > >
> > > This weekend, I was talking to Manosh Chowdhury, who
> > > has just returned
> > > from Japan to Dhaka. Unprovoked he started talking
> > > about how "we" is
> > > used unquestioningly on Sarai to mean "Indian".
> > > Even "South Asian"
> > > means "Indian", or at least everything non-Indian is
> > > through the prism
> > > of the "center".
> > >
> > > But it's a bore to be the resident scold, or a
> > > token.  I fear
> > > eventually most who feel suffocated by the recent
> > > endless debate (a
> > > debate which is often between a few individuals,
> > > sometimes even
> > > one-to-one, and yet it gets sent to the entire list)
> > > will have
> > > Manosh's reaction.  They will drift away, exhausted.
> > >
> > > As Jeebesh pointed out, it takes very little time to
> > > destroy a
> > > cyber-community that has been built up painstakingly
> > > by Sarai over the
> > > years.  Tyranny of the few threatens to do just
> > > that.
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