[Reader-list] JKLF leader Yasin Malik says unarmed IAF officers were agents of Enemy...defends killing them !

Partha Dasgupta parthaekka at gmail.com
Fri Sep 14 09:07:36 IST 2007 

Hi Pawan,

This reply is probably a repeat of what I wrote earlier (and I do wish you
would construct your arguments logically)

However, in case my point doesn't get through, am responding directly to the
points raised by you.

1.   Supporting militants.
      If they are giving up arms and returning to civil life like Yasin
Malik did, I certainly am
      a supporter. That they will give up armed conflict and try to resolve
the issue through
      debate is something I would very much like as it would bring down the
number of
      people that would die otherwise.

      I presume, that you to would like less people to die? Or am I wrong
here?


2.   The obligation to my country being limited to paying taxes.
      - Well, I live here and not abroad and generate jobs here.
      - I don't go about throwing bombs (or even garbage at people)

     And yes, I love this country and human race enough to want that less
people die
     and armed conflict is replaced by debate.

     Don't you?


3.   Being obsessed with Yasin Malik
      That's a very strange question coming from you. The original post was
from you,
      and since posts on this forum are meant to start a debate or a
discussion of
      view points, it is presumable that you posted the topic to start a
debate.

     And now you're asking why I'm interested in Yasin Malik when you
started the
     topic?


4.   Learning.
      All I asked for was the point behind the post and what you're trying
to show.
      And that, by the way, is what I've been asking from my first post.

     Maybe you won't be able to accept this now, but knowing and
understanding
     other points of view is important. I joined this list so I would learn
other points of view
     and open my horizon.

     Which is why I also responded to your post since I couldn't figure out
what that
     post was trying to say (and still haven't). However, all I've heard
besides the blessings
     is that soldiers die or a question of whether it is natural for a woman
to be raped or
     that Yasin Malik is free and has a following. These are all know facts,
and yes, facts
    should be used to make a point.

    I understand the facts behind the point as they're common logic. What I
don't understand
    is the point you are trying to make.

To get back to my question from day 1, what's your case?

Rgds, Partha

On 9/13/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Suddha : My mail was not directed to you unless you consider one among the
> defenders of terrorists.
>
> Partho : Nice to hear that your obligation to your country is limited to
> paying taxes. As for as your suggestion of me trying to learn is concerned
> ,
> I pray to god that I should not be as learned as you are.
>
> And BTW why are you all so obsessed with defending yasin malik , if the
> terrorist does not matter to you ?
>
>
>
> On 9/13/07, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> >
> > Dear all, Dear ARKP,
> >
> > It seems to me that you guys are the people most attatched to Yasin
> > Malik on this list. I have rarely seen such undying affection or
> > devotion to Yasin Malik as demonstrated by you, repeatedly. Really, the
> > JKLF (Yasin Malik faction) should hire you as publicists.
> >
> > Whenever you have a problem, whenever your arguments are demonstrated as
> > hollow,  whenever the discussion moves on towards things more intersting
> > than what you throw into the ring, you pull Yasin Malik out of your
> > little bag of tricks. As if he was some kind of protective talisman
> > behind whom you can shield your obvious inability to participate in a
> > discussion.
> >
> > In two successive mails addressed to Pawan Durani, I had categorically
> > stated my opposition to the use of violence, and also categorically
> > mentioned that if any charges are brought in the legally prescribed
> > manner against Yasin Malik, me, Pawan Durani, my father or Santa Claus
> > on suspicion of homicide then they (Yasin Malik, me, Pawan Durani, my
> > father and Santa Claus) should be required to stand a free and fair
> trial.
> >
> > I had said this while trying painstakingly to explain the meaning of the
> > phrase 'he, or any other' which I had used when on another occasion,
> > ARKP had brought out the effigy of Yasin Malik (yet again) to cover for
> > their defeated arguments. I cannot understand why, after this, the issue
> > of Yasin Malik refuses to go away.
> >
> > See my posts,
> >
> > 1. Re: [Reader-list] By R.J.Rummel, September 3, 2007
> > 2. Re : [Reader-list] Reply To Shuddha (Yasin Sahibs Fan), September 4,
> > 2007
> >
> > In the first, I say - "As for the deaths of Indian State and Armed
> > Forces Personnel. Let me make my position clear. I am not a votary of
> > pursuing politics by violence, no matter who does it. Not because I have
> > a moral position vis a vis violence, but because I believe that the
> > strategy of terror, no matter who pursues it, invariably leads to
> > secretive, un-accountable and un-democratic politics, which leads to
> > popular movements being corrupted and infiltrated by the very forces
> > that they are opposing. I think this has happenned in Kashmir, and it
> > happenned both because of the machinations of the Indian state and the
> > political immaturity of the pro Azadi 'tanzeems' in Jammu and Kashmir,
> > and in the Kashmiri diaspora."
> >
> > In the second post, I say "if anyone, whether it is Yasin Malik or
> > Santa Claus, or you, or me, or my father,  that is what the "he or any
> > other person" in the above paragraph means (reference to a quotaion from
> > a fragement of my earlier post) - is found guilty of homicide
> > in a free and fair trial, they should be punished for it, with a prison
> > term if need be, as per the provisions of a criminal procedure code."
> >
> > I do not know how much clearer a position can be than this. And yet,
> > again, and again, and again, we see Pawan Durani bringing up the
> > allegation that there are poeple on this list (myself explicitly
> > included) who serve as apologists either for Yasin Malik or for anyone
> > else who has either committed or condoned the use of violence in Kashmir
> >
> > So the next time someone, anyone, in ARKP (though this type of bad
> > sniping does seem to be the particular forte of A and P) brings out the
> > effigy of Yasin Malik in any posting, dear readers, please understand
> > that it is a semaphore, a code that indicates that they are admitting
> > yet again that they are a bunch of losers, who refuse to learn any
> > lessons from their defeats. We can sympathise (at a stretch) with the
> > abjectness of that failure, but we cannot refuse to see it for what it
> is.
> >
> > I am also amused at the deliberate carping about the category of people
> > that are being loosely called 'intellectuals' on this list. I fail to
> > understand precisely what is wrong with being an 'intellectual' - with
> > being a person who works for a living with words, images, ideas and
> > concepts. Is it better to be a dentist, or a chef, or a traffic police
> > inspector, or a gardener, or a financial analyst than it is to be a
> > writer, a teacher, an artist, a philosopher, a librarian or a scientist?
> >
> > I see nothing wrong with being a  dentist, or a chef, or a traffic
> > police inspector, or a gardener, or a financial analyst, and
> > consequently, I fail to see what is wrong with being what is loosely
> > called 'an intellectual'. Since when did the choice of your practice
> > mark you out as being the appropriate target of abuse. Would it make
> > sense, if I, or anyone else were to say on this list, "...and the
> > 'dentists' will still have some argument...........god bless India'.
> >
> > Is it someone's fault that they take care about how they write, or read,
> > or express an argument? Is it a mistake, an error, to be able to work
> > through the nuances of a statement, or an argument, to try and see
> > complexity, or to try and engage in a dialogue on the basis of a respect
> > for knowledge and the spirit of dialogue?
> >
> > I think it is far worse to see some people demonstrate their pride in
> > their inability to marshall even the basic rudiments of an argument. The
> > arrogance born of knowledge, or of claims to knowledge, is sad, but the
> > arrogance born of wilful and publicly demonstrated ignorance is really
> > pathetic.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > an intellectual, and a toilet cleaner
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Pawan Durani wrote:
> >
> > > And the "intellectuals" will still have some
> argument................god
> > > Bless India.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/13/07, Aditya Raj Kaul <adityarajkaul at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>*The agents of the 'enemy'** - Rediff News
> > >>
> > >>*** *Srinagar.* January 25, 1990 Squadron Leader Ravi Khanna's
> > misfortune
> > >>was that he was in uniform.
> > >>That winter morning nine years ago, he and his colleagues were waiting
> > >>near
> > >>the Rawalpura bus stand. An Indian Air Force bus was to reach them to
> > the
> > >>airport.
> > >>At around 0730 hours a Maruti Gypsy and a two-wheeler carrying four to
> > >>five
> > >>Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front militants drew up. The next thing
> > that
> > >>Khanna knew was bullets pumping into his body. That was the last thing
> > he
> > >>knew. Around him 13 more fell. Three of them dead, 10 were injured.
> > Hardly
> > >>50 yards away was a Jammu and Kashmir police picket, manned by a head
> > >>constable and seven subordinates. Their eight .303 rifles remained
> > silent
> > >>as
> > >>the militants finished emptying their weapons and, taking a clockwise
> > >>circuit of the roundabout ahead, vanished unhurriedly into Srinagar's
> > >>numerous back lanes.
> > >>*Even after he gave up the gun, JKLF leader Yasin Malik was to defend
> > the
> > >>killings: The IAF personnel were not innocent victims. They were the
> > >>agents
> > >>of the 'enemy'. *
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>*--
> > >>Aditya Raj Kaul
> > >>Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com
> > >>Campaign Blog: www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com
> > >>RIK Website: www.rootsinkashmir.org
> > >>US Website: www.unitedstudents.in*
> > >>_________________________________________
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> > >
> > > _________________________________________
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> > > Critiques & Collaborations
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> >
> >
> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
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-- 
Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka

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