[Reader-list] An Apology: JKLF leader Yasin Malik says unarmed IAF officers were agents of Enemy...defends killing them !
Partha Dasgupta
parthaekka at gmail.com
Fri Sep 14 14:25:26 IST 2007
Dear Pawan,
a) Are you saying that Yasin Malik has not been cleared of anything and has
not
been accepted by the Indian Govt of a militant who has handed in his
arms and
now proposes non-violence?
If that is so, I disagree.
b) The reason we're discussing the issue is because some thought about it
strongly
enough to post, so I do hope that it is 'sensitive'. Though, if you're
that fragile, would
suggest that you don't post since all public posts will draw reactions,
and all of them
will not subscribe to your point of view.
c) Let's take Gandhi once more into the focus. At the point that he was
leading the
freedom movement, the government was run by the British, and he was
going against
it. That is how this country was born - before that it was a bunch of
kingdoms spread
across the land with no allegiances to any concept or thought of
India.
Rgds, Partha
On 9/14/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Partha Said : On the other hand, you are calling a man [ read Yasin Malik
> ] cleared by the laws of India and someone who's trying to promote
> non-violence (which if you remember is a concept brought into vogue by Gandi
> who also happens to be the father of the nation) a terrorist.
>
> Dear Partha ,
>
> How do you expect me to discuss a sensitive issue with you when you state
> that Yasin malik has been cleared by law. For your information he has not
> been cleared , he still has scores of cases against him that includes
> terrorist activities , killings , Kiddnapping Hawala , threats etc.
>
> I fail to understand how can you copmare this person with Gandhi ? When
> was gandhi accused of all this , unless i have read a different history and
> not the one which is printed under a red flag.
>
> Pawan Durani
>
>
> On 9/14/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Pawan,
> >
> > a) I wanted to apologise for one term that was used in my post last
> > evening. I was in
> > the middle of giving my children dinner and has asked a friend to
> > hit the send
> > button, but he decided to change a few words that he thought would
> > express my
> > point of view better.
> >
> > The phrase was "Or is it that a mental block is transferring to a
> > sexual block that is
> > raising the issue of rape? In that scenario, Frued (or a live
> > shrink) would be the right
> > person to go to."
> >
> > That was an extremely out of place and unwarranted remark, and I
> > apologize for that.
> > Sure, I could have done that in a private mail, but since the
> > initial comment was made
> > in a public forum, it is only fair that I should make my apologies
> > in the same forum and
> > not in private.
> >
> > My question was "If there's a mental block that is not allowing
> > you to look beyond
> > the emotional aspect and understand or respond to the logic of a
> > viewpoint, then it
> > is better to stay silent since there's nothing to say."
> >
> > b) As for the points you raised about being 'natural'. That's open to
> > debate about what
> > you consider natural. Cancer and AIDS have come out of the nature
> > of human
> > interaction and we're trying to find a cure for both - and a host
> > of other 'natural'
> > ailments. Does that mean we're going against the laws of nature?
> >
> > For the other part of your question, if you follow the simple
> > logic of a soldier or a
> > militant in an armed conflict there will be death on both sides.
> > That does not mean
> > that every soldier and militant will die in that conflict, but a
> > certain percentage will
> > die on both sides - as well as civilians in that zone despite not
> > having anything to
> > do with the conflict besides their presence.
> >
> > I short, it is not 'natural for a soldier to get killed',
> > however the law of averages dictates
> > that in an area of armed conflict some soldiers will die.
> >
> > c) As for the rest of your questions about Yasin Malik being a
> > terrorist and having a
> > fan following, I am getting a bit confused about your viewpoint.
> >
> > On one hand you claim to be a loyal Indian and a complete
> > follower and believer
> > in the tenets of India.
> >
> > On the other hand, you are calling a man cleared by the laws of
> > India and someone
> > who's trying to promote non-violence (which if you remember is a
> > concept brought
> > into vogue by Gandi who also happens to be the father of the
> > nation) a terrorist.
> >
> > What's your point? Do you not believe in the laws of India? Or is
> > it that the continued
> > violence allows you a place to get angry and talk about how you've
> > been victimised?
> >
> > On my part, would far prefer that more and more militants give up
> > arms and join civil
> > society. And if that means pardoning them, would rather have that
> > than more dead
> > people - and that includes soldiers, militants as well as
> > civilians.
> >
> > Do you disagree to that?
> >
> > Rgds, Partha
> >
> > On 9/13/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > Saddha Devi,
> > >
> > > You have a basic problem with patriotism.
> > >
> > > Is it indeed natural for a soldier to get killed ?
> > > Is it natural for the killer like Yasin Malik to be a free man ?
> > > Is it natural that even after so many years the charges against a
> > > terrorist has not been framed ?
> > > Is it natural for a killer to have a fan following with
> > > "intellectuals" leading it?
> > >
> > > If this all seems natural to you , then one should understand how safe
> > > the Indians are with you and Partho as their co -citizens ?
> > >
> > > Pawan
> > >
> > > On 9/13/07, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Pawan Durani wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What if I counter your first argument with ..."What's the point
> > > > that a woman
> > > > > is molested , they are prone to it."
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Interesting, that Pawan Durani should think that it is natural that
> > > > women should be 'prone' to being molested.
> > > >
> > > > I personally think that there is a world of a difference between the
> > > >
> > > > estimation of risks that uniformed personnel of the armed forces in
> > > > a
> > > > combat zone knows that they faces, and the situation of being a
> > > > woman.
> > > >
> > > > No one can deny that a member of the armed forces, especially one in
> > > >
> > > > uniform, wears that uniform knowing fully well that in a situation
> > > > of
> > > > armed conflict, that uniform will mark him or her as a fair target.
> > > > If
> > > > they did not know that, they would not have joined the armed forces.
> > > >
> > > > A soldier who wears a military uniform makes a choice to face and
> > > > deliver aggression, if need be. A person who is born a woman does
> > > > not
> > > > make a choice to face molestation. In fact in many societies, women
> > > > do
> > > > not face the level of molestation that they do in lets say the
> > > > streets
> > > > of Delhi, regardless of what they happen to be wearing. In most
> > > > cities
> > > > in the world, women are not "prone to it" in the manner Durni
> > > > suggests
> > > > they are.
> > > >
> > > > By equating these two very different kinds of situation, what Pawan
> > > > Durani is saying is as follows - women are that special kind of
> > > > people
> > > > who will naturally face molestation in any and every circumstance,
> > > > they
> > > > are in his words "prone to it".
> > > >
> > > > It makes me ask a set of questions about the kind of man Pawan
> > > > Durani
> > > > is, and about the things that he is 'prone' to
> > > >
> > > > the kind obviously, who (logically following through his argument)
> > > > thinks that all women are fair game, as far as molestation goes,
> > > > because, they "are prone to it".
> > > >
> > > > I think that we can conclude from this that no woman under any
> > > > circumstances should feel safe in the company of Pawan Durani.
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > >
> > > > Shuddha
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Does that mean that we dont owe any responsibility.
> > > > >
> > > > > People like you have zero nationalism and negative
> > > > intellectualism.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would still say ...may God Bless even you , who does not care
> > > > even for the
> > > > > martyrs of his country.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/13/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>Hi,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Not as an 'intellectual', but as an ordinary list reader, have
> > > > some
> > > > >>questions
> > > > >>1. What's the point - that a soldier was killed by a militant?
> > > > >> That's a part of their job profile. A tragic incident but a
> > > > part of
> > > > >> the armed forces life. Just as a militant knows that he'll be
> > > >
> > > > >> targetted by armed forces fire, armed forces know that
> > > > they'll be
> > > > >> targetted by militants
> > > > >>
> > > > >>2. Yasin Malik didn't apologise? Well, that's his personal point
> > > > of view.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Like he has his, you have yours - and thy differ. This post
> > > > is not
> > > > >> marked to him so you're obviously not trying to change his
> > > > mind
> > > > >> and make him apologise.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>3. We've all seen footage of armed forces showing unrelated
> > > > people as
> > > > >> militants and cops showing innocent people as criminals so we
> > > > know
> > > > >> that both sides play dirty. That's a fact of life that needs
> > > > to be
> > > > >>faced
> > > > >> by unbiased reporting to clean the problem and not enhance it
> > > > by
> > > > >>hate.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>4. Where does "God Bless India" come in - or even India come in
> > > > since
> > > > >> militancy is a global problem from Ceylon to Afghanistan to
> > > > the US
> > > > >> and Ireland
> > > > >>
> > > > >>This pointless post has got me completely confused as to what
> > > > you're
> > > > >>trying to say,
> > > > >>unless it's linked to a larger debate - in which case you should
> > > > include
> > > > >>the debate.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Rgds, Partha
> > > > >>....................
> > > > >>
> > > > >>On 9/13/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>And the "intellectuals" will still have some
> > > > argument................god
> > > > >>>Bless India.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>On 9/13/07, Aditya Raj Kaul <adityarajkaul at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>*The agents of the 'enemy'** - Rediff News
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>*** *Srinagar.* January 25, 1990 Squadron Leader Ravi Khanna's
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>misfortune
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>was that he was in uniform.
> > > > >>>>That winter morning nine years ago, he and his colleagues were
> > > > waiting
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>near
> > > > >>>>the Rawalpura bus stand. An Indian Air Force bus was to reach
> > > > them to
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>the
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>airport.
> > > > >>>>At around 0730 hours a Maruti Gypsy and a two-wheeler carrying
> > > > four to
> > > > >>>>five
> > > > >>>>Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front militants drew up. The next
> > > > thing
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>that
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>Khanna knew was bullets pumping into his body. That was the last
> > > > thing
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>he
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>knew. Around him 13 more fell. Three of them dead, 10 were
> > > > injured.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Hardly
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>50 yards away was a Jammu and Kashmir police picket, manned by a
> > > > head
> > > > >>>>constable and seven subordinates. Their eight .303 rifles
> > > > remained
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>silent
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>as
> > > > >>>>the militants finished emptying their weapons and, taking a
> > > > clockwise
> > > > >>>>circuit of the roundabout ahead, vanished unhurriedly into
> > > > Srinagar's
> > > > >>>>numerous back lanes.
> > > > >>>>*Even after he gave up the gun, JKLF leader Yasin Malik was to
> > > > defend
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>the
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>killings: The IAF personnel were not innocent victims. They were
> > > > the
> > > > >>>>agents
> > > > >>>>of the 'enemy'. *
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>*--
> > > > >>>>Aditya Raj Kaul
> > > > >>>>Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com
> > > > >>>>Campaign Blog: www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com
> > > > >>>>RIK Website: www.rootsinkashmir.org
> > > > >>>>US Website: www.unitedstudents.in*
> > > > >>>>_________________________________________
> > > > >>>>reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
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> > > >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>_________________________________________
> > > > >>>reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > >>>Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > >>>To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
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> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>--
> > > > >>Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
> > > > >> http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________
> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > > subscribe in the subject header.
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> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
> > http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka
>
>
>
--
Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka
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