[Reader-list] An Apology: JKLF leader Yasin Malik says unarmed IAF officers were agents of Enemy...defends killing them !
Pawan Durani
pawan.durani at gmail.com
Fri Sep 14 13:55:54 IST 2007
Partha Said : On the other hand, you are calling a man [ read Yasin Malik ]
cleared by the laws of India and someone who's trying to promote
non-violence (which if you remember is a concept brought into vogue by Gandi
who also happens to be the father of the nation) a terrorist.
Dear Partha ,
How do you expect me to discuss a sensitive issue with you when you state
that Yasin malik has been cleared by law. For your information he has not
been cleared , he still has scores of cases against him that includes
terrorist activities , killings , Kiddnapping Hawala , threats etc.
I fail to understand how can you copmare this person with Gandhi ? When was
gandhi accused of all this , unless i have read a different history and not
the one which is printed under a red flag.
Pawan Durani
On 9/14/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Pawan,
>
> a) I wanted to apologise for one term that was used in my post last
> evening. I was in
> the middle of giving my children dinner and has asked a friend to
> hit the send
> button, but he decided to change a few words that he thought would
> express my
> point of view better.
>
> The phrase was "Or is it that a mental block is transferring to a
> sexual block that is
> raising the issue of rape? In that scenario, Frued (or a live
> shrink) would be the right
> person to go to."
>
> That was an extremely out of place and unwarranted remark, and I
> apologize for that.
> Sure, I could have done that in a private mail, but since the
> initial comment was made
> in a public forum, it is only fair that I should make my apologies
> in the same forum and
> not in private.
>
> My question was "If there's a mental block that is not allowing you
> to look beyond
> the emotional aspect and understand or respond to the logic of a
> viewpoint, then it
> is better to stay silent since there's nothing to say."
>
> b) As for the points you raised about being 'natural'. That's open to
> debate about what
> you consider natural. Cancer and AIDS have come out of the nature
> of human
> interaction and we're trying to find a cure for both - and a host
> of other 'natural'
> ailments. Does that mean we're going against the laws of nature?
>
> For the other part of your question, if you follow the simple logic
> of a soldier or a
> militant in an armed conflict there will be death on both sides.
> That does not mean
> that every soldier and militant will die in that conflict, but a
> certain percentage will
> die on both sides - as well as civilians in that zone despite not
> having anything to
> do with the conflict besides their presence.
>
> I short, it is not 'natural for a soldier to get killed', however
> the law of averages dictates
> that in an area of armed conflict some soldiers will die.
>
> c) As for the rest of your questions about Yasin Malik being a
> terrorist and having a
> fan following, I am getting a bit confused about your viewpoint.
>
> On one hand you claim to be a loyal Indian and a complete follower
> and believer
> in the tenets of India.
>
> On the other hand, you are calling a man cleared by the laws of
> India and someone
> who's trying to promote non-violence (which if you remember is a
> concept brought
> into vogue by Gandi who also happens to be the father of the nation)
> a terrorist.
>
> What's your point? Do you not believe in the laws of India? Or is it
> that the continued
> violence allows you a place to get angry and talk about how you've
> been victimised?
>
> On my part, would far prefer that more and more militants give up
> arms and join civil
> society. And if that means pardoning them, would rather have that
> than more dead
> people - and that includes soldiers, militants as well as civilians.
>
> Do you disagree to that?
>
> Rgds, Partha
>
> On 9/13/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Saddha Devi,
> >
> > You have a basic problem with patriotism.
> >
> > Is it indeed natural for a soldier to get killed ?
> > Is it natural for the killer like Yasin Malik to be a free man ?
> > Is it natural that even after so many years the charges against a
> > terrorist has not been framed ?
> > Is it natural for a killer to have a fan following with "intellectuals"
> > leading it?
> >
> > If this all seems natural to you , then one should understand how safe
> > the Indians are with you and Partho as their co -citizens ?
> >
> > Pawan
> >
> > On 9/13/07, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net > wrote:
> >
> > > Pawan Durani wrote:
> > >
> > > > What if I counter your first argument with ..."What's the point that
> > > a woman
> > > > is molested , they are prone to it."
> > > >
> > >
> > > Interesting, that Pawan Durani should think that it is natural that
> > > women should be 'prone' to being molested.
> > >
> > > I personally think that there is a world of a difference between the
> > > estimation of risks that uniformed personnel of the armed forces in a
> > > combat zone knows that they faces, and the situation of being a woman.
> > >
> > > No one can deny that a member of the armed forces, especially one in
> > > uniform, wears that uniform knowing fully well that in a situation of
> > > armed conflict, that uniform will mark him or her as a fair target. If
> > > they did not know that, they would not have joined the armed forces.
> > >
> > > A soldier who wears a military uniform makes a choice to face and
> > > deliver aggression, if need be. A person who is born a woman does not
> > > make a choice to face molestation. In fact in many societies, women
> > > do
> > > not face the level of molestation that they do in lets say the streets
> > > of Delhi, regardless of what they happen to be wearing. In most cities
> > > in the world, women are not "prone to it" in the manner Durni suggests
> > >
> > > they are.
> > >
> > > By equating these two very different kinds of situation, what Pawan
> > > Durani is saying is as follows - women are that special kind of people
> > > who will naturally face molestation in any and every circumstance,
> > > they
> > > are in his words "prone to it".
> > >
> > > It makes me ask a set of questions about the kind of man Pawan Durani
> > > is, and about the things that he is 'prone' to
> > >
> > > the kind obviously, who (logically following through his argument)
> > > thinks that all women are fair game, as far as molestation goes,
> > > because, they "are prone to it".
> > >
> > > I think that we can conclude from this that no woman under any
> > > circumstances should feel safe in the company of Pawan Durani.
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Shuddha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Does that mean that we dont owe any responsibility.
> > > >
> > > > People like you have zero nationalism and negative intellectualism.
> > > >
> > > > I would still say ...may God Bless even you , who does not care even
> > > for the
> > > > martyrs of his country.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/13/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >>Not as an 'intellectual', but as an ordinary list reader, have some
> > > >>questions
> > > >>1. What's the point - that a soldier was killed by a militant?
> > > >> That's a part of their job profile. A tragic incident but a
> > > part of
> > > >> the armed forces life. Just as a militant knows that he'll be
> > > >> targetted by armed forces fire, armed forces know that they'll
> > > be
> > > >> targetted by militants
> > > >>
> > > >>2. Yasin Malik didn't apologise? Well, that's his personal point of
> > > view.
> > > >>
> > > >> Like he has his, you have yours - and thy differ. This post is
> > > not
> > > >> marked to him so you're obviously not trying to change his mind
> > > >> and make him apologise.
> > > >>
> > > >>3. We've all seen footage of armed forces showing unrelated people
> > > as
> > > >> militants and cops showing innocent people as criminals so we
> > > know
> > > >> that both sides play dirty. That's a fact of life that needs to
> > > be
> > > >>faced
> > > >> by unbiased reporting to clean the problem and not enhance it
> > > by
> > > >>hate.
> > > >>
> > > >>4. Where does "God Bless India" come in - or even India come in
> > > since
> > > >> militancy is a global problem from Ceylon to Afghanistan to the
> > > US
> > > >> and Ireland
> > > >>
> > > >>This pointless post has got me completely confused as to what you're
> > > >>trying to say,
> > > >>unless it's linked to a larger debate - in which case you should
> > > include
> > > >>the debate.
> > > >>
> > > >>Rgds, Partha
> > > >>....................
> > > >>
> > > >>On 9/13/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>And the "intellectuals" will still have some
> > > argument................god
> > > >>>Bless India.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>On 9/13/07, Aditya Raj Kaul <adityarajkaul at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>*The agents of the 'enemy'** - Rediff News
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>*** *Srinagar.* January 25, 1990 Squadron Leader Ravi Khanna's
> > > >>>
> > > >>>misfortune
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>was that he was in uniform.
> > > >>>>That winter morning nine years ago, he and his colleagues were
> > > waiting
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>near
> > > >>>>the Rawalpura bus stand. An Indian Air Force bus was to reach them
> > > to
> > > >>>
> > > >>>the
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>airport.
> > > >>>>At around 0730 hours a Maruti Gypsy and a two-wheeler carrying
> > > four to
> > > >>>>five
> > > >>>>Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front militants drew up. The next
> > > thing
> > > >>>
> > > >>>that
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>Khanna knew was bullets pumping into his body. That was the last
> > > thing
> > > >>>
> > > >>>he
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>knew. Around him 13 more fell. Three of them dead, 10 were
> > > injured.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Hardly
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>50 yards away was a Jammu and Kashmir police picket, manned by a
> > > head
> > > >>>>constable and seven subordinates. Their eight .303 rifles remained
> > > >>>
> > > >>>silent
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>as
> > > >>>>the militants finished emptying their weapons and, taking a
> > > clockwise
> > > >>>>circuit of the roundabout ahead, vanished unhurriedly into
> > > Srinagar's
> > > >>>>numerous back lanes.
> > > >>>>*Even after he gave up the gun, JKLF leader Yasin Malik was to
> > > defend
> > > >>>
> > > >>>the
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>killings: The IAF personnel were not innocent victims. They were
> > > the
> > > >>>>agents
> > > >>>>of the 'enemy'. *
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>*--
> > > >>>>Aditya Raj Kaul
> > > >>>>Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com
> > > >>>>Campaign Blog: www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com
> > > >>>>RIK Website: www.rootsinkashmir.org
> > > >>>>US Website: www.unitedstudents.in*
> > > >>>>_________________________________________
> > > >>>>reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > >>>>Critiques & Collaborations
> > > >>>>To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > >>>>subscribe in the subject header.
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> > > >>>
> > > >>>_________________________________________
> > > >>>reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > >>>Critiques & Collaborations
> > > >>>To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > >>>subscribe in the subject header.
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>--
> > > >>Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
> > > >> http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > subscribe in the subject header.
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> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
> http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka
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