[Reader-list] On JKLF and Indian Airforce Personnel

[Partha Dasgupta]

Hi Pawan,

You're welcome to withdraw, as that's a personal decision, just as joining
this list was a personal decision.

However, don't you think that actually having a point of view that is
logically supported by facts and decisions a more sensible way to have a
discussion.

Any how, that's your choice. If 'exile' is what you want, you're welcome.

At least you considered the Sarai post enough of a 'home' to feel 'exiled'.

Rgds, Partha
..........

On 9/14/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As of now I am in an imposed Exile . An exile imposed by those who
> welcomed the Jihadis.
>
> On 9/14/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Pawan,
> >
> > Interesting.
> >
> > You say that the 'people of Kashmir welcome him with...'
> >
> > Are you not counting yourself as a 'person of Kashmir'? And if you are,
> > why do you have any 'individual pain'
> >
> > More importantly, what does this have to do with Junaid's post which
> > talks about the construction of the armed struggle?
> >
> > Rgds, Partha
> > .........................
> >
> >  On 9/14/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And I can understand when a killer [ Bitta karate ] of 40 kashmiri
> > > pandits
> > > come out of jail, people in Kashmir welcome him with garlands and
> > > distribute
> > > sweet.
> > >
> > > Where does that imply bearing the individual pain collectively go ?
> > >
> > > All in the name of Supreme.
> > >
> > > Pawan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 14 Sep 2007 08:15:33 -0000, junaid < justjunaid at rediffmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Indian state has entered the bodies of Pawan Duranis and Aditya
> > > Kauls
> > > > imperceptibly. When Mr. Durani or Mr. Kaul speaks, it is the voice
> > > of state,
> > > > as the sole provider of values, which comes out. The State says "My
> > > violence
> > > > is my right, and my right alone, but anyone who challenges this
> > > right, that
> > > > is my sovereignty, she/he/they should be deemed criminal, fit only
> > > to be
> > > > eliminated through the laws that I make."
> > > >
> > > > So Mr. Durani, who has unconsciously become the spokesman of the
> > > state,
> > > > and regurgitates its litanies, would be confounded if someone
> > > punctures his
> > > > seemingly coherent discourse by refusing to accept the legitimacy of
> > > the
> > > > state. He will label anti-national and unpatriotic people who don't
> > > accept
> > > > the state's "natural" logic.
> > > >
> > > > When Kashmiris started an armed struggle against Indian state, its
> > > main
> > > > actors, the militants were not separate from, what are mistakenly
> > > called,
> > > > civilians. No one is innocent in Kashmir, militants, "civilians",
> > > Indian
> > > > troops or officials, Pandits. They have positions on political
> > > issues.
> > > >
> > > > When a Kashmiri is killed by Indian troops, instead of seeking
> > > justice
> > > > from Indian state, people come together to forge a solidarity, they
> > > bear
> > > > individual pain collectively. Take the example of Pathribal killings
> > > when
> > > > the police fired on Kashmiris protesting fake killings of five
> > > Kashmiris,
> > > > and seven more died. Why would Kashmiris allow such a thing to
> > > happen to
> > > > themselves?
> > > >
> > > > The responsibility for the acts of militants, or armed Kashmiris,
> > > was
> > > > shared equally by the Kashmiri society. It was quite evident in the
> > > way
> > > > Kashmiris liberally funded the movement (many people gave away part
> > > of their
> > > > salaries, month after month, and from the returns from their trade),
> > > > participated in popular protests on the call from militants, gave
> > > shelter
> > > > and food to militants, protested in thousands in funerals for
> > > militants, and
> > > > suffered individual and collective brutalities at the hands of
> > > Indian army.
> > > > Militants were seen as the soldiers of the Kashmiri nation, their
> > > freedom
> > > > fighters, not brigands or criminals.
> > > >
> > > > Kashmiris never participated in funerals for killed Indian soldiers.
> > > Like
> > > > the way people in India mourned the death of Indian soldiers.
> > > Kashmiris have
> > > > always seen Indian forces as occupation troops. Occupation:
> > > unlawful,
> > > > illegitimate control of territories whose residents don't endorse or
> > > > authorize that control. And by popularly and violently opposing
> > > Indian rule
> > > > in Kashmir, expressed in the slogans and motifs of the movement, a
> > > vast
> > > > majority of Kashmiris declared their position.
> > > >
> > > > Now the incident referred to here: The Indian airmen, armed or
> > > unarmed,
> > > > were part of the Indian state's most visible and brutal aspect, the
> > > Indian
> > > > defense. Logically, in war the enemy's soldiers, armed or unarmed,
> > > are
> > > > legitimate targets. That is what they became. If Yasin Malik is
> > > hanged, then
> > > > those thousands of Indian soldiers who killed thousands of militants
> > > should
> > > > be hanged too. If he is forced to say sorry to India, then Indian
> > > soldiers
> > > > should say sorry to Kashmir.
> > > >
> > > > Kashmir's freedom movement is not a series of individual crimes. As
> > > Indian
> > > > states atrocities and brutalities are not acts of individual crimes
> > > by
> > > > soldiers. They are political acts. In Kashmir they are seen as such.
> > > >
> > > > Personally I am against wars; but at the same time, I am against the
> > > > appropriation of the right to violence by the state; and I
> > > especially
> > > > despise this appropriation in occupied territories.
> > > >
> > > > Junaid
> > > > _________________________________________
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> > > _________________________________________
> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > subscribe in the subject header.
> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
> > http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka
>
>
>


-- 
Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka