[Reader-list] On JKLF and Indian Airforce Personnel

[Pawan Durani]

Partha ,

Thats your idea of understanding.

What did you understand by my refering the word "Exile?"

Pawan


On 9/14/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Pawan,
>
> You're welcome to withdraw, as that's a personal decision, just as joining
> this list was a personal decision.
>
> However, don't you think that actually having a point of view that is
> logically supported by facts and decisions a more sensible way to have a
> discussion.
>
> Any how, that's your choice. If 'exile' is what you want, you're welcome.
>
> At least you considered the Sarai post enough of a 'home' to feel
> 'exiled'.
>
> Rgds, Partha
> ..........
>
> On 9/14/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > As of now I am in an imposed Exile . An exile imposed by those who
> > welcomed the Jihadis.
> >
> > On 9/14/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Pawan,
> > >
> > > Interesting.
> > >
> > > You say that the 'people of Kashmir welcome him with...'
> > >
> > > Are you not counting yourself as a 'person of Kashmir'? And if you
> > > are, why do you have any 'individual pain'
> > >
> > > More importantly, what does this have to do with Junaid's post which
> > > talks about the construction of the armed struggle?
> > >
> > > Rgds, Partha
> > > .........................
> > >
> > >  On 9/14/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > And I can understand when a killer [ Bitta karate ] of 40 kashmiri
> > > > pandits
> > > > come out of jail, people in Kashmir welcome him with garlands and
> > > > distribute
> > > > sweet.
> > > >
> > > > Where does that imply bearing the individual pain collectively go ?
> > > >
> > > > All in the name of Supreme.
> > > >
> > > > Pawan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 14 Sep 2007 08:15:33 -0000, junaid < justjunaid at rediffmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The Indian state has entered the bodies of Pawan Duranis and
> > > > Aditya Kauls
> > > > > imperceptibly. When Mr. Durani or Mr. Kaul speaks, it is the voice
> > > > of state,
> > > > > as the sole provider of values, which comes out. The State says
> > > > "My violence
> > > > > is my right, and my right alone, but anyone who challenges this
> > > > right, that
> > > > > is my sovereignty, she/he/they should be deemed criminal, fit only
> > > > to be
> > > > > eliminated through the laws that I make."
> > > > >
> > > > > So Mr. Durani, who has unconsciously become the spokesman of the
> > > > state,
> > > > > and regurgitates its litanies, would be confounded if someone
> > > > punctures his
> > > > > seemingly coherent discourse by refusing to accept the legitimacy
> > > > of the
> > > > > state. He will label anti-national and unpatriotic people who
> > > > don't accept
> > > > > the state's "natural" logic.
> > > > >
> > > > > When Kashmiris started an armed struggle against Indian state, its
> > > > main
> > > > > actors, the militants were not separate from, what are mistakenly
> > > > called,
> > > > > civilians. No one is innocent in Kashmir, militants, "civilians",
> > > > Indian
> > > > > troops or officials, Pandits. They have positions on political
> > > > issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > When a Kashmiri is killed by Indian troops, instead of seeking
> > > > justice
> > > > > from Indian state, people come together to forge a solidarity,
> > > > they bear
> > > > > individual pain collectively. Take the example of Pathribal
> > > > killings when
> > > > > the police fired on Kashmiris protesting fake killings of five
> > > > Kashmiris,
> > > > > and seven more died. Why would Kashmiris allow such a thing to
> > > > happen to
> > > > > themselves?
> > > > >
> > > > > The responsibility for the acts of militants, or armed Kashmiris,
> > > > was
> > > > > shared equally by the Kashmiri society. It was quite evident in
> > > > the way
> > > > > Kashmiris liberally funded the movement (many people gave away
> > > > part of their
> > > > > salaries, month after month, and from the returns from their
> > > > trade),
> > > > > participated in popular protests on the call from militants, gave
> > > > shelter
> > > > > and food to militants, protested in thousands in funerals for
> > > > militants, and
> > > > > suffered individual and collective brutalities at the hands of
> > > > Indian army.
> > > > > Militants were seen as the soldiers of the Kashmiri nation, their
> > > > freedom
> > > > > fighters, not brigands or criminals.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kashmiris never participated in funerals for killed Indian
> > > > soldiers. Like
> > > > > the way people in India mourned the death of Indian soldiers.
> > > > Kashmiris have
> > > > > always seen Indian forces as occupation troops. Occupation:
> > > > unlawful,
> > > > > illegitimate control of territories whose residents don't endorse
> > > > or
> > > > > authorize that control. And by popularly and violently opposing
> > > > Indian rule
> > > > > in Kashmir, expressed in the slogans and motifs of the movement, a
> > > > vast
> > > > > majority of Kashmiris declared their position.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now the incident referred to here: The Indian airmen, armed or
> > > > unarmed,
> > > > > were part of the Indian state's most visible and brutal aspect,
> > > > the Indian
> > > > > defense. Logically, in war the enemy's soldiers, armed or unarmed,
> > > > are
> > > > > legitimate targets. That is what they became. If Yasin Malik is
> > > > hanged, then
> > > > > those thousands of Indian soldiers who killed thousands of
> > > > militants should
> > > > > be hanged too. If he is forced to say sorry to India, then Indian
> > > > soldiers
> > > > > should say sorry to Kashmir.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kashmir's freedom movement is not a series of individual crimes.
> > > > As Indian
> > > > > states atrocities and brutalities are not acts of individual
> > > > crimes by
> > > > > soldiers. They are political acts. In Kashmir they are seen as
> > > > such.
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally I am against wars; but at the same time, I am against
> > > > the
> > > > > appropriation of the right to violence by the state; and I
> > > > especially
> > > > > despise this appropriation in occupied territories.
> > > > >
> > > > > Junaid
> > > > > _________________________________________
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> > > > _________________________________________
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> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > > subscribe in the subject header.
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
> > > http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
> http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka
>