[Reader-list] On JKLF and Indian Airforce Personnel

Partha Dasgupta parthaekka at gmail.com
Fri Sep 14 15:52:38 IST 2007 

Hi Pawan,

If you're asking what I understand from your word 'exile', the answer is
that realising that your argument has no basis in logic or reason or fact
you've taken the easy way out and ducked the issue.

In all the exchanges we've had, you haven't been able to support any issue
by
fact or reason and take refuge in platitudes.

Rgds, Partha

On 9/14/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Partha ,
>
> Thats your idea of understanding.
>
> What did you understand by my refering the word "Exile?"
>
> Pawan
>
>
> On 9/14/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Pawan,
> >
> > You're welcome to withdraw, as that's a personal decision, just as
> > joining this list was a personal decision.
> >
> > However, don't you think that actually having a point of view that is
> > logically supported by facts and decisions a more sensible way to have a
> > discussion.
> >
> > Any how, that's your choice. If 'exile' is what you want, you're
> > welcome.
> >
> > At least you considered the Sarai post enough of a 'home' to feel
> > 'exiled'.
> >
> > Rgds, Partha
> > ..........
> >
> > On 9/14/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > As of now I am in an imposed Exile . An exile imposed by those who
> > > welcomed the Jihadis.
> > >
> > > On 9/14/07, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Pawan,
> > > >
> > > > Interesting.
> > > >
> > > > You say that the 'people of Kashmir welcome him with...'
> > > >
> > > > Are you not counting yourself as a 'person of Kashmir'? And if you
> > > > are, why do you have any 'individual pain'
> > > >
> > > > More importantly, what does this have to do with Junaid's post which
> > > > talks about the construction of the armed struggle?
> > > >
> > > > Rgds, Partha
> > > > .........................
> > > >
> > > >  On 9/14/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > And I can understand when a killer [ Bitta karate ] of 40 kashmiri
> > > > > pandits
> > > > > come out of jail, people in Kashmir welcome him with garlands and
> > > > > distribute
> > > > > sweet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Where does that imply bearing the individual pain collectively go
> > > > > ?
> > > > >
> > > > > All in the name of Supreme.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pawan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 14 Sep 2007 08:15:33 -0000, junaid < justjunaid at rediffmail.com >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Indian state has entered the bodies of Pawan Duranis and
> > > > > Aditya Kauls
> > > > > > imperceptibly. When Mr. Durani or Mr. Kaul speaks, it is the
> > > > > voice of state,
> > > > > > as the sole provider of values, which comes out. The State says
> > > > > "My violence
> > > > > > is my right, and my right alone, but anyone who challenges this
> > > > > right, that
> > > > > > is my sovereignty, she/he/they should be deemed criminal, fit
> > > > > only to be
> > > > > > eliminated through the laws that I make."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So Mr. Durani, who has unconsciously become the spokesman of the
> > > > > state,
> > > > > > and regurgitates its litanies, would be confounded if someone
> > > > > punctures his
> > > > > > seemingly coherent discourse by refusing to accept the
> > > > > legitimacy of the
> > > > > > state. He will label anti-national and unpatriotic people who
> > > > > don't accept
> > > > > > the state's "natural" logic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When Kashmiris started an armed struggle against Indian state,
> > > > > its main
> > > > > > actors, the militants were not separate from, what are
> > > > > mistakenly called,
> > > > > > civilians. No one is innocent in Kashmir, militants,
> > > > > "civilians", Indian
> > > > > > troops or officials, Pandits. They have positions on political
> > > > > issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When a Kashmiri is killed by Indian troops, instead of seeking
> > > > > justice
> > > > > > from Indian state, people come together to forge a solidarity,
> > > > > they bear
> > > > > > individual pain collectively. Take the example of Pathribal
> > > > > killings when
> > > > > > the police fired on Kashmiris protesting fake killings of five
> > > > > Kashmiris,
> > > > > > and seven more died. Why would Kashmiris allow such a thing to
> > > > > happen to
> > > > > > themselves?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The responsibility for the acts of militants, or armed
> > > > > Kashmiris, was
> > > > > > shared equally by the Kashmiri society. It was quite evident in
> > > > > the way
> > > > > > Kashmiris liberally funded the movement (many people gave away
> > > > > part of their
> > > > > > salaries, month after month, and from the returns from their
> > > > > trade),
> > > > > > participated in popular protests on the call from militants,
> > > > > gave shelter
> > > > > > and food to militants, protested in thousands in funerals for
> > > > > militants, and
> > > > > > suffered individual and collective brutalities at the hands of
> > > > > Indian army.
> > > > > > Militants were seen as the soldiers of the Kashmiri nation,
> > > > > their freedom
> > > > > > fighters, not brigands or criminals.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kashmiris never participated in funerals for killed Indian
> > > > > soldiers. Like
> > > > > > the way people in India mourned the death of Indian soldiers.
> > > > > Kashmiris have
> > > > > > always seen Indian forces as occupation troops. Occupation:
> > > > > unlawful,
> > > > > > illegitimate control of territories whose residents don't
> > > > > endorse or
> > > > > > authorize that control. And by popularly and violently opposing
> > > > > Indian rule
> > > > > > in Kashmir, expressed in the slogans and motifs of the movement,
> > > > > a vast
> > > > > > majority of Kashmiris declared their position.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now the incident referred to here: The Indian airmen, armed or
> > > > > unarmed,
> > > > > > were part of the Indian state's most visible and brutal aspect,
> > > > > the Indian
> > > > > > defense. Logically, in war the enemy's soldiers, armed or
> > > > > unarmed, are
> > > > > > legitimate targets. That is what they became. If Yasin Malik is
> > > > > hanged, then
> > > > > > those thousands of Indian soldiers who killed thousands of
> > > > > militants should
> > > > > > be hanged too. If he is forced to say sorry to India, then
> > > > > Indian soldiers
> > > > > > should say sorry to Kashmir.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kashmir's freedom movement is not a series of individual crimes.
> > > > > As Indian
> > > > > > states atrocities and brutalities are not acts of individual
> > > > > crimes by
> > > > > > soldiers. They are political acts. In Kashmir they are seen as
> > > > > such.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally I am against wars; but at the same time, I am against
> > > > > the
> > > > > > appropriation of the right to violence by the state; and I
> > > > > especially
> > > > > > despise this appropriation in occupied territories.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Junaid
> > > > > > _________________________________________
> > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
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> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________
> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > > > subscribe in the subject header.
> > > > > To unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
> > > > http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
> > http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka
> >
>
>


-- 
Partha Dasgupta (9811047132)
http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka

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