[Reader-list] STOP THE SHUDDHA-FECAL-TION

[Vishal Rawlley]

havaa havaa e havaa
khusbu lotaa de
kaha khuli, zulf bataa de
main us se miloonga
ik baar milaa de

ting ting ting ti-ni-ni-nining

(breeze o breeze
return the fragrance....)

---

for those not not form the India-sphere - its a pakistani pop song


On 9/14/07, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
>
> Dear Vishal,
>
> Excellent post, and well said, in everything you have said. And I agree
> with you, its time to put an end to this, and time for all of us to get
> some sun, or moonlight into our lives. I want to do that most of all.
>
> But, I think the patience and the loving reason tack was tried, and
> tried for a long time, and everything that everyone said (and I mean
> everyone) was taken very seriously. The archive of this list is proof of
> that. Actually, the scatological references originate with the ARKP
> hydra, some of us just chose to take it on, having failed to cut ice, as
> you say, with the clear light of reason and enlightened benevolent
> patient and trying to be nice. We tried to have some fun, not as in a co
> ordinated conspiracy, but in a spontaneous move that originated at
> several points, instead of gettin embroiled in the schoolyard 'tu-tu,
> main-main' and competitive victimhood game that they (ARKP) are probably
> more familiar with. Repeatedly, also, attempts have been made and are
> still being made to try and introduce other ideas, images, concepts on
> this list in the last few days. But of course, ARKP bounces back with
> their one point agenda of unmasking some of us as a proxy terror cell.
>
> I am as concerned as you are about the health of the list, and about the
> need for some cool (not hot) 'hava'.But I take anyone implying that I,
> or any one of my friends, is an apologist for terrorism very, very
> seriously. These are very dark times, and I have known people face death
> sentences for lesser things than such flimsy charges. I do not want
> myself, you, or anyone else on this list to have to deal with the
> nightmarish mess of that because some motivated individuals repeated
> lies about us that went unchallenged. So that, individuals could go on
> saying, we proved and showed and demonstrated on the Reader List that X,
> Y and Z were terrorists, or terrorist sympathizers.
>
> The individuals we all know did the following -
>
> 1. accused people of doing things that they had not done (cancel
> screenings)
> 2. tried to prejudice our understanding, through out of context
> readings, of a publicly available court record in a serious terrorism
> trial.
> 3. tried to tar people on this list with the very serious charge of
> aiding terrorism and being aided by terrorists.
> 4. falsified facts and selectively quoted historical sources in order to
> buttress a communal argument
> 5. initiated the business of sexist innuendo, ad hominem remarks and
> casteist insinuations(how else is one to interpret a post that calls
> people SHITS in a country where shit cleaning is a caste issue) and left
> no stone unturned in engaging in the wholesale and unwarranted imputaton
> of motives.
>
> All this occurred after every attempt had been made (for the past
> several weeks) to engage with them with seriousness, analytical rigour
> and some amount of actual engagement with historical material.
>
> These individuals have grossly abused the freedom of expression that is
> granted to everyone that participates on this list, and I am not
> surprised that in return they have had to deal with some of the vitriol
> that even very patient people can generate when provoked beyond reason.
>
> The option to ban them from the list was always available, and there was
> enough reason to do so, because they crossed the line that divides
> radical difference of opinion from false accusations and moved straight
> into the territory where they began spreading lies and rumour. But
> banning them is an is an option that the traditions and conventions of
> this list prevents us from exercising. And I do not think that anyone on
> this list barring them wishes to see them decked out with the glamour of
> martyred 'censorship'.
>
> Hence, we have to put up with the periodic spectacle of sanitation. The
> consequences of free speech are a degree of pain for everyone, most of
> all for those who are trying to keep the space free. Believe me, nothing
> exasperates me, or I think anyone who has been engaged in this more than
> having to deal yet again with some trashy argument. But because we are a
> free space, we have to do it. The consequneces of 'ignoring' this
> mounting pile of garbage are that the list itself will get polluted, and
> undermined.
>
> They are not new to this game. I have seen them doing this on other
> lists and forums where they have had equally destructive agendas. What
> is new for them is the amount of resistance coming from several members
> of the list. I think they underestimate the lists capacity to exhaust
> them.
>
> I have said enough on these matters of sanitation and plumbing,
> exercised enough of my freedom of speech, and now I can and will choose
> to exercise my freedom of silence, but I hope, others, you included,
> will step into breach the gap, so that we do not drown in fecal matter.
>
> I remain hopeful that the list will do a perfectly good cleaning job
>
> Shuddha
>
>
>
>
> Vishal Rawlley wrote:
>
> > No, I don't think we need people to purge and purify this space. Jane do
> > yaar, ashuddh hee theek hai. The self-appointed shit sweepers should
> > absolutely stop. You guys are spreading more shit around than wiping it
> off.
> > Now every post smells of turd. Smell this one and see - its all over.
> >
> >
> >
> > I would imagine that the readers of this list are intelligent enough and
> > mature enough to decide which arguments to purchase and which to ignore.
> > Leave the shit alone. Let it decompose by itself, its biodegradable
> after
> > all. Ignore it please. If you do have a better argument or a different
> > viewpoint or more information on an issue, please do share it with us:
> the
> > readers. There is no point aiming it at people whose intelligence and
> logic
> > you doubt. Stop lacing your counter arguments with "I do not wish to
> > ridicule you, but…" "don't test my patience, [or else]…" when you do
> put
> > forward your point
> >
> >
> >
> > It seems to me that the volunteer toilet cleaners are being
> opportunistic in
> > using the counter arguments to the crappy comments only to brandish
> their
> > own superior wit and wisdom. A self-congratulatory club is so boring, an
> > utter waste (pun intended). You guys have created the ARKP hydra, fed it
> and
> > buffered it and now it looms like a demon, foaming and fuming, over all
> of
> > us.
> >
> >
> >
> > That we now have people like, first, Vedavanti and now some Kashmiri
> > pandits, with very opposed viewpoints on this list, could have been such
> a
> > good opportunity to converse with them. These people represent the
> viewpoint
> > of certain masses and are not just standalone lunatics. Their different
> > viewpoint also has a reason for existing. Can we address that? If only
> we
> > were not so insensitive and didn't act prudishly, we could have engaged
> them
> > more positively. Expecting carefully constructed arguments from them is
> > futile. There was no need to be baited by them every time they acted
> > provocatively. One could have ignored them â€" simple solution. But if
> you
> > must take on the tough task of correcting their prejudice then
> understand
> > first what you are trying to take on. It could be a very useful
> exercise. I
> > personally do not have the where withal to do so, but if your toilet
> > cleaners must engage them, then have bottomless patience, show some
> love,
> > some Gandhigiri, handle them gently and then perhaps they would respond.
> > Some of them are quite loveable and very human. They have idealism and a
> > passion and this can all be channelised to good use.
> >
> >
> >
> > I appeal to you "intellectuals" because I hope to cut some ice here. I
> also
> > appeal to the other party to show some restraint. Stop pulling out
> incidents
> > from 1990 (Squadron Leader Ravi Khanna's misfortune) just to rile up
> people.
> > And please, all of you, get some Sun - spending so much time in front of
> the
> > screen is very unhealthy.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry for sounding like a moral science school teacher, but I just want
> my
> > reader-list back the way it was. If someone does not take the initiative
> > now, no amount of fumigation and sanitation will work. Its getting very
> > stuffy in here, so as they say in Bombay: Havaa aane de yaar! (Let me
> some
> > get air, my friend).
> >
> >
> >
> > Keep it real,
> >
> > Vishal Blurker
> >
> >
> >
> > p.s. And if you absolutely must regale in toilet cleaning, then please
> take
> > on 'we wi' (Dhatri), that should keep you occupied for ever and ever.
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