[Reader-list] STOP THE SHUDDHA-FECAL-TION

[Shuddhabrata Sengupta]

Dear Vishal,

Excellent post, and well said, in everything you have said. And I agree 
with you, its time to put an end to this, and time for all of us to get 
some sun, or moonlight into our lives. I want to do that most of all.

But, I think the patience and the loving reason tack was tried, and 
tried for a long time, and everything that everyone said (and I mean 
everyone) was taken very seriously. The archive of this list is proof of 
that. Actually, the scatological references originate with the ARKP 
hydra, some of us just chose to take it on, having failed to cut ice, as 
you say, with the clear light of reason and enlightened benevolent 
patient and trying to be nice. We tried to have some fun, not as in a co 
ordinated conspiracy, but in a spontaneous move that originated at 
several points, instead of gettin embroiled in the schoolyard 'tu-tu, 
main-main' and competitive victimhood game that they (ARKP) are probably 
more familiar with. Repeatedly, also, attempts have been made and are 
still being made to try and introduce other ideas, images, concepts on 
this list in the last few days. But of course, ARKP bounces back with 
their one point agenda of unmasking some of us as a proxy terror cell.

I am as concerned as you are about the health of the list, and about the 
need for some cool (not hot) 'hava'.But I take anyone implying that I, 
or any one of my friends, is an apologist for terrorism very, very 
seriously. These are very dark times, and I have known people face death 
sentences for lesser things than such flimsy charges. I do not want 
myself, you, or anyone else on this list to have to deal with the 
nightmarish mess of that because some motivated individuals repeated 
lies about us that went unchallenged. So that, individuals could go on 
saying, we proved and showed and demonstrated on the Reader List that X, 
Y and Z were terrorists, or terrorist sympathizers.

The individuals we all know did the following -

1. accused people of doing things that they had not done (cancel screenings)
2. tried to prejudice our understanding, through out of context 
readings, of a publicly available court record in a serious terrorism trial.
3. tried to tar people on this list with the very serious charge of 
aiding terrorism and being aided by terrorists.
4. falsified facts and selectively quoted historical sources in order to 
buttress a communal argument
5. initiated the business of sexist innuendo, ad hominem remarks and 
casteist insinuations(how else is one to interpret a post that calls 
people SHITS in a country where shit cleaning is a caste issue) and left 
no stone unturned in engaging in the wholesale and unwarranted imputaton 
of motives.

All this occurred after every attempt had been made (for the past 
several weeks) to engage with them with seriousness, analytical rigour 
and some amount of actual engagement with historical material.

These individuals have grossly abused the freedom of expression that is 
granted to everyone that participates on this list, and I am not 
surprised that in return they have had to deal with some of the vitriol 
that even very patient people can generate when provoked beyond reason.

The option to ban them from the list was always available, and there was 
enough reason to do so, because they crossed the line that divides 
radical difference of opinion from false accusations and moved straight 
into the territory where they began spreading lies and rumour. But 
banning them is an is an option that the traditions and conventions of 
this list prevents us from exercising. And I do not think that anyone on 
this list barring them wishes to see them decked out with the glamour of 
martyred 'censorship'.

Hence, we have to put up with the periodic spectacle of sanitation. The 
consequences of free speech are a degree of pain for everyone, most of 
all for those who are trying to keep the space free. Believe me, nothing 
exasperates me, or I think anyone who has been engaged in this more than 
having to deal yet again with some trashy argument. But because we are a 
free space, we have to do it. The consequneces of 'ignoring' this 
mounting pile of garbage are that the list itself will get polluted, and 
undermined.

They are not new to this game. I have seen them doing this on other 
lists and forums where they have had equally destructive agendas. What 
is new for them is the amount of resistance coming from several members 
of the list. I think they underestimate the lists capacity to exhaust them.

I have said enough on these matters of sanitation and plumbing, 
exercised enough of my freedom of speech, and now I can and will choose 
to exercise my freedom of silence, but I hope, others, you included, 
will step into breach the gap, so that we do not drown in fecal matter.

I remain hopeful that the list will do a perfectly good cleaning job

Shuddha




Vishal Rawlley wrote:

> No, I don't think we need people to purge and purify this space. Jane do
> yaar, ashuddh hee theek hai. The self-appointed shit sweepers should
> absolutely stop. You guys are spreading more shit around than wiping it off.
> Now every post smells of turd. Smell this one and see - its all over.
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine that the readers of this list are intelligent enough and
> mature enough to decide which arguments to purchase and which to ignore.
> Leave the shit alone. Let it decompose by itself, its biodegradable after
> all. Ignore it please. If you do have a better argument or a different
> viewpoint or more information on an issue, please do share it with us: the
> readers. There is no point aiming it at people whose intelligence and logic
> you doubt. Stop lacing your counter arguments with "I do not wish to
> ridicule you, but…" "don't test my patience, [or else]…" when you do put
> forward your point
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me that the volunteer toilet cleaners are being opportunistic in
> using the counter arguments to the crappy comments only to brandish their
> own superior wit and wisdom. A self-congratulatory club is so boring, an
> utter waste (pun intended). You guys have created the ARKP hydra, fed it and
> buffered it and now it looms like a demon, foaming and fuming, over all of
> us.
> 
> 
> 
> That we now have people like, first, Vedavanti and now some Kashmiri
> pandits, with very opposed viewpoints on this list, could have been such a
> good opportunity to converse with them. These people represent the viewpoint
> of certain masses and are not just standalone lunatics. Their different
> viewpoint also has a reason for existing. Can we address that? If only we
> were not so insensitive and didn't act prudishly, we could have engaged them
> more positively. Expecting carefully constructed arguments from them is
> futile. There was no need to be baited by them every time they acted
> provocatively. One could have ignored them – simple solution. But if you
> must take on the tough task of correcting their prejudice then understand
> first what you are trying to take on. It could be a very useful exercise. I
> personally do not have the where withal to do so, but if your toilet
> cleaners must engage them, then have bottomless patience, show some love,
> some Gandhigiri, handle them gently and then perhaps they would respond.
> Some of them are quite loveable and very human. They have idealism and a
> passion and this can all be channelised to good use.
> 
> 
> 
> I appeal to you "intellectuals" because I hope to cut some ice here. I also
> appeal to the other party to show some restraint. Stop pulling out incidents
> from 1990 (Squadron Leader Ravi Khanna's misfortune) just to rile up people.
> And please, all of you, get some Sun - spending so much time in front of the
> screen is very unhealthy.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for sounding like a moral science school teacher, but I just want my
> reader-list back the way it was. If someone does not take the initiative
> now, no amount of fumigation and sanitation will work. Its getting very
> stuffy in here, so as they say in Bombay: Havaa aane de yaar! (Let me some
> get air, my friend).
> 
> 
> 
> Keep it real,
> 
> Vishal Blurker
> 
> 
> 
> p.s. And if you absolutely must regale in toilet cleaning, then please take
> on 'we wi' (Dhatri), that should keep you occupied for ever and ever.
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