[Reader-list] Lists and assaults

[Partha Dasgupta]

Another fact I just learnt, and hopefully another step away.

I do not know the exact words that Yasin Malik had spoken at the WSF,
however, had he also apologised for the killings AND shown regret for the
armed forces people killed (though that particular episode was not by him),
nothing would have washed him off his crimes uless you, Pawan, are also open
to accepting and moving on.

Just as it is absurd for anti-abortionists to kill in support of their
argument, I feel it is absurd to howl for blood for the life of J&K. There
has been enough blood spilt, and continues to be spilt every day.One more
family loses a member and one more family gets caught up in the elevator of
hate - going higher and higher till it won't make a difference because there
won't be anything to come down to.

Question is, at the core of your demand for J&K, what do you want?

A peaceable J&K with harmony and love of ALL Kashmiri's - irrespective of
Hindu, Muslim, Christian, etc

OR

Kill the militants and suspected militants. Let the bullets and bombs fly.
Kill till anything and anyone in doubt is dead. Then stand on a blood
stained land and say "I'm satisfied".

Will that really take your pain away? I doubt, but even if it did, you won't
have a Kashmir to go back to as everything will be destroyed by then.

Rgds, Partha

On 9/15/07, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Gargi ,
>
> Has he apologiesed for HIS killings ? If he HAS , i have missed out
> something . Please enlighten me where he HAS apologies for HIS killings .
>
> Even if he HAS , which he HASN'T , that doesnt still wash him off his
> crimes.
>
> A terrorist has to be dealt by the law of the land.
>
> Pawan
>
>
> On 9/15/07, Gargi Sen <sen.gargi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Partha, Pawan,
> > Partha just so that you know and Pawan just so that you hear, once,
> > fearlessly: Yasin Malik HAS aplogised. Publicly. At the WSF 2004 in Mumbai.
> > And many people on this list have repeated that over and over, ad nauseum,
> > especially Shuddha.
> >
> > Pawan you choose to ignore an apology by a man and insist on shouting
> > "but he has not even said sorry."
> > That is a choice you make.
> >
> > However, each time you lie, someone on this list, equally exhausted as
> > me with your tireless and endless lying, will summon up the energy to tell
> > you the truth, once again, over and over. Because your lie is dangerous. You
> > lies can lead to death. And that is simply not allowed.
> >
> > Partha, the acronym stands for Aditya, Pawan, Rashneek and Khemendra
> > coined by someone I have only met on the list – M Yousuf, a person whose
> > nationality and gender is not know but who is nevertheless a comrade. He
> > called them ARKP. I added the +VD to signify the other half of these five
> > men: Vedvati and Dhatri.
> >
> > If you look at the archive you'll see the genesis of these silly names
> > and games.
> >
> > But the lies they tell is not just childish or stupid, the lies they
> > tell are dangerous.
> >
> > And so tired, exhausted, we still nail the lies. In the process I think
> > we've also had a lot of fun. Created games and archetypes. And truly taken
> > the debate beyond the orbit of ARKP+VD into a space they can't reach even in
> > their dreams, and laughed amongst ourselves even as we wear their insults
> > with pride: SHIT, toilet cleaner, shady-shadowy (for pseudo-secular) and
> > turned the scary mobsters into jokes. And that has been the success of this
> > list.
> >
> > Gargi happy-to-be-pseudo-secular Sen
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/15/07 1:49 PM, "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Partha , I have no love for the killers or terrorists. They do NOT
> > deserve it. Neither do I serve Justice , but I do CRY for it. Ofcourse I
> > have not pardoned Yasin Malik the terrorist , and more ever he has NOT
> > regreted any of his killings. Regarding the "Greater Bangla " issue , i have
> > no knowledge as of now about it , and hence would not like to comment on
> > that .I am not an expert of life on everything or life on mars ....like few
> > of the people here are. God Bless Pawan On 9/15/07, Partha Dasgupta <
> > parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Pawan, > > He obviously hasn't been
> > pardoned by you. Amongst the many things that you > told me, why not tell me
> > one thing more that I asked - why shouldn't I cry > out for a 'Greater
> > Bangla' and ignore your's of J&K. > > I see the passion and the pain, but I
> > don't see the reason. > > Rgds, Partha > > On 9/15/07, Pawan Durani <
> > pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hello Partha , > > > > Didn't I
> > tell you that the terrorist has not been pardoned by the law , > > unless
> > you chose to ignore that. > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > >  On 9/15/07, Partha
> > Dasgupta < parthaekka at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > >
> > > We go back to the same loop of only looking at a part of a debate, out > >
> > > of it's context. > > > > > > Let me get back to where I set off from - why
> > don't we start agitating > > > for Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka... > > >
> > > > > When do we stop the killing and look after the living? > > > > > > You
> > talk of the constitution of India, and then rail at the ones who > > > have
> > been pardoned and believed by the same constitution. > > > > > > Just
> > because you don't believe is something or someone doesn't mean > > >
> > everyone else has to - UNLESS there is a reasoned argument behind that cause
> > > > > - and I haven't seen one as yet. > > > > > > Like I've said time and
> > again - show me the reason. Else, why > > > shouldn't I drown out your
> > shouts for J&K for my call for a 'Greater Bangla' > > > (or whatever else)
> > just because I am blinkered to everything else. > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > >
> > > ......................................... > > > On 9/15/07, Pawan Durani <
> > pawan.durani at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 9/15/07, Partha
> > Dasgupta parthaekka at gmail.com > wrote > > > > > > > > >>>>>>You 'ask for
> > a terrorist to be brought to justice' forgetting > > > > the path forged by
> > JP in including the outsiders and bringing them into > > > > civil society.
> > > > > > Do you really want to continue the cycle of hate? An eye for an eye
> > > > > > - is that the point so that we go on and on killing. More and more,
> > till the > > > > bodies pile up and all that is left is a ravaged landscape.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > Partha , > > > > We live in a country where
> > the constitution exists. general amnesty > > > > to all criminals
> > ,especially terrorists is a very dangerous thought. > > > > > > > > We can
> > not go on and start defending people for they are *supposed* > > > > to have
> > been reformed [ or become political ] . Justice has to be served for > > > >
> > their deeds. These people have been source of violence against innconets , >
> > > > > and responsible for making a race homeless. > > > > > > > > As the
> > Pope Greogery VII  had once said and this may hold true for > > > > me ,"I
> > have loved justice and hated inequity; and therefore I die in exile." > > >
> > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pawan, > > > > > >
> > > > > > What you have provoked me into thinking about is how far this > > >
> > > > "gimme" attitude will go. As a father, I stop my youngest from doing it
> > with > > > > > his elder siblings since he's at the age when everything is
> > 'mine'. > > > > > > > > > > Should I demand back Bangladesh, since as a
> > Bengali my roots are > > > > > there? > > > > > > > > > > Should I demand
> > back Pakistan, where hundreds of thousands of > > > > > Indians have there
> > roots? > > > > > > > > > > Should I demand back Sri Lanka where Ram made his
> > conquest (and it > > > > > resides in the Indian Ocean) > > > > > > > > > >
> > You 'ask for a terrorist to be brought to justice' forgetting the > > > > >
> > path forged by JP in including the outsiders and bringing them into civil >
> > > > > > society. > > > > > > > > > > Do you really want to continue the
> > cycle of hate? An eye for an > > > > > eye - is that the point so that we go
> > on and on killing. More and more, till > > > > > the bodies pile up and all
> > that is left is a ravaged landscape. > > > > > > > > > > Or do we look at
> > what the government has finally figured out - an > > > > > 'inclusive'
> > debate wherein concerned parties form a common consensus - which > > > > >
> > also cuts down the enforced mortality rate. > > > > > > > > > > Sure, I can
> > block you off with spam - but that would allow you to > > > > > write
> > whatever you want as I sit silent. The same attitude in Germany that > > > >
> > > allowed Hitler to come to power and destroy decades of sensibility and > >
> > > > > almost wipe out a tribe. I can't because I have growing children and I
> > hope > > > > > that they will emerge into a reasoned society instead of a
> > regimented one. > > > > > > > > > > You talk of the homeless because your
> > home was taken away. That's > > > > > personal so you care - and forget the
> > pain of separation in India or the > > > > > Nandigrams and dams that have
> > caused so much pain.> > > > > > > > > > "But the dams are for the greater
> > good" - in that case, wouldn't > > > > > letting peace reign in J&K be for
> > the greater good? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure you have 50+ subscribers
> > writing to you offline, maybe > > > > > more. Good for you. If they're that
> > proud of you, why slide offline and > > > > > write? Keep the debate in the
> > public forum unless you're ashamed of your > > > > > views. > > > > > > > >
> > > > When I wrote to you about the Yasin Malik post, all I enquired > > > > >
> > about was the reason and logic of the debate you wanted to start. Since this
> > > > > > > is not a blog or a 'me too' mass mail, the whole point about a
> > post here is > > > > > to raise debate. > > > > > > > > > > Till date,
> > though we've reached the level of personal denigration, > > > > > we have
> > not had a debate on the central issue, and not a single response to > > > >
> > > the questions I asked. > > > > > > > > > > That you have a passion for J&K
> > is an undeniable fact. However, > > > > > just as I have a passion for
> > Bengal, to present the case to you I must base > > > > > my argument in
> > reason and not gung-ho platitudes about heads and hearts. > > > > > That's
> > for polticians making a speech for elections - while this is a forum > > > >
> > > to discuss and debate viewpoints. > > > > > > > > > > If you have a point
> > and a reason, let's talk. If not, why throw up > > > > > tons of dust in the
> > air? Sure, it'll obfuscate the issue and drown out > > > > > everything else
> > and make me dirty. But you're there too, and you will get > > > > > just as
> > dirty. Like every other day I'll take a bath and start off again. > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you truly believe that you have a point that you can get > > >
> > > > across, then explain it and I will listen. If you stick to loud noises
> > then > > > > > I will make more noises so that my children hopefully get to
> > see an India > > > > > where reason and love form the core of society - not
> > hate and intolerence. > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > >
> >  On 9/15/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear Anamika , > > > > > > > > > > > > That is what I was trying
> > to provoke the likes of Suddha , > > > > > > Partha and Zainab > > > > > >
> > to think into. > > > > > > > > > > > > When they talk about freedom of
> > expression , that means the > > > > > > liberty to > > > > > > portray a
> > terrorist as a moderan day Gandhi .> > > > > > > > > > > > And when I
> > express my desire that a terrorist has to be bought > > > > > > to justice ,
> > > > > > > > they find it pushing and then use some unparliamentary words. >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If my expression of resentment for a man who has made
> > me > > > > > > homeless is not > > > > > > acceptable in freedom of speech ,
> > I wonder what else is ? > > > > > > > > > > > > I would continue to drag the
> > issue below or above the belt as > > > > > > long as the > > > > > >
> > terrorist is not bought to justice. if someone is not interested > > > > > >
> > a button is > > > > > > needed to delete the mail or put me on SPAM . That
> > is a gift > > > > > > technology has > > > > > > given to us. > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But if I interest you , you would continue to read me. > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To put on record I have around 50 + subscribers of readers-list
> > > > > > > > writing to > > > > > > me offline and appreciating my concern. >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Who knows, the way things are turning , 20 years down
> > the line > > > > > > your child > > > > > > may be writing the same stuff
> > which I write now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > On 14 Sep 2007 23:19:52 -0000, Anamika Bhatnagar < > > > > > >
> > bhatnagar_anamika at rediffmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Man...I am seriously irritated by these stupid replies and > > > >
> > > > counter replies > > > > > > > ...true...that > > > > > > > freedom of
> > speech must be maintained and preserved but > > > > > > these...pawan and >
> > > > > > > > company drag > > > > > > > it below the belt...it is so
> > difficult to have a constructive > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > with
> > them.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 Rana Dasgupta wrote :
> > > > > > > > > >Rana Dasgupta wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given
> > the seriousness of some of the issues at stake, and > > > > > > the enormous
> > > > > > > > > > > gulfs of understanding between some of the contributors, I
> > > > > > > > have to say > > > > > > > > > I've admired the restraint of many
> > of the writers on the > > > > > > list.  People > > > > > > > > > have held
> > themselves back from expressing outright > > > > > > disgust, or from > > >
> > > > > > > > violent attacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I take it all
> > back. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________ > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Partha Dasgupta
> > (9811047132) > > > > > http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Partha Dasgupta (9811047132) > > >
> > http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka > > > > > > > > > > -- > Partha Dasgupta
> > (9811047132) > http://www.jaxtr.com/parthaekka >
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> >
> >
>