[Reader-list] Self determination in Kashmir-reply to Vishal

[Vishal Rawlley]

Dear Rahul,

After you posted your problems with self-determination in Kashmir, I had
replied to you (pasted below). I had asked you a question: we now know the
problems you have pointed out, but we want to know your proposed solution,
can you post your answer please. Thank you.

>>
In response to Rahul I had said:

Very well said. You have a right to your own opinions and have provided good
reasoning for it too. However, it does not necessarily mean that everyone
has to agree with you. Other people have a right to their own viewpoints
based their own reasoning. Try not to impose your views. If you are
convinced that your views are superior than others, then its their loss that
they do not get your viewpoint. When the day comes to decide the best
viewpoint you shall undoubtedly win. Meanwhile keep refining your arguments.
Do not waste you energy in arguing with those who won't listen.

Many successive Indian governments have tried the policy that you are
propounding. Somehow it has not been working. So now what to do? What is the
correct solution? Can you put it down step by step, just like you put down
all the problems point by point?

Now Shuddha and some others proposed their solution, which was: withdrawal
of armed forces form both Kashmirs - under Indian and under Pakistani
occupation. That should give the Kashmiris the space to decide - after
considering all the problems that you mentioned - whether they want to be
independent or be with either country (entirely or partly, as in partly
autonomous).

I do not know this if solution of theirs will work, what do you think? Maybe
this way Kashmiris will take very long to decide and they might kill each
other some more before they arrive at a plan. But at least they will not be
able to blame anyone but themselves. This seems better than wasting our
money and manpower in keeping Kashmir with us forcefully.

Do you have a better plan? Tell us please.

-Vishal





On 9/16/07, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I do not see the email shveta replied to in the
> list,strangely.So I am reposting this.This is my
> response to Vishal and it has my argument as to why
> the nation may resort to censorship in some cases-to
> be specific,why it would censor something that
> promotes self determination in Kashmir.
> Here goes again.If it was already posted to the
> list,my apologies.
>
> Hi Vishal,
> That was a great post.I mean the original one.I find
> my faculties of expression inadequate to connect to
> passionate people in general and ladies in
> particular;so I had taken a break.In the spirit of
> "hawa aane de..yaar",I am tempted to post again.
> Now,many people think that A united and independent
> Kashmir for all Kashmiris is the only just solution to
> this 60 year old dispute.
> This is a very  appreciable sentiment, but I dont
> think that is gonna happen.It may be just too, but who
> are the stakeholders in such type of a
> solution.?Honesty of individuals is not required here.
> What I or you think should happen, would not affect
> reality one bit.
> Nations dont work on such canonical moral
> principles.For getting anywhere near to the solution
> of Kashmir, it is very necessary to get to grip with
> realities.Neither India nor Pakistan will benefit from
> an independent Kashmir. Neither will Kashmir itself.As
> for UN,the resolutions are not mandatory and UN
> reiterates a policy of non interference and
> bilateralism.Neither can any side (India \pak)bomb the
> other party to come to a solution. Nor can any country
> bleed the other to a point of submission by terrorism
> etc.
> Lets examine India`s stakes in Kashmir.For India
> a) it will have a bad effect on insurgencies in the
> North East,
> b)Ladakh is a strategic location wrt China, and India
> would not be comfortable with that going in a
> different country.
> c) Distrust of Pakistan( or its dictators) to not to
> try to usurp any further territory.
> d) Majority of Indians do not regard Kashmir as a
> disputed territory and if any party is perceived to go
> soft on Kashmir, it would have a very difficult time
> to get elected again.
> So , from India`s view point,plesbicite just aint
> gonna happen at the cost of whatever armtwisting it
> may have to do or it may have to tolerate.
> I dont know much about Pakistani politics but there is
> the one water treaty,for them to have reservations in
> wanting an independent Kashmir. I dont know what
> interest or logic Pakistan has in supporting those
> Islamist terrorist organisations,though, or whether
> there is an internal political spin to it.
> Coming to Kashmir itself, it is a landlocked region
> with scant resources. If it does become a sovereign
> state,it will also have problems with its non uniform
> demographics. There would always be some sort of
> strife in it.A referendum of 60-40 in the favour of an
> option would only guarantee the continuation of some
> kind of trouble in the region.
> So, referendum, as far as I can see,is almost
> impossible pragmatically.India, unilaterally, would
> not allow it to happen,without consideration for
> Pakistan or Kashmiri`s interests.
> Not to say that all the people dont have a stake in
> the solution of the problem.Most of all the Kashmiris.
> Then Pakistan and India(gas pipeline and defense
> expenditure). A solution is a win win option for
> everybody.Concerned parties should be realistic and
> pragmatic,instead of just keeping on with their
> idealism;because its a matter of life and death for
> many people.
> And,above all , all concerned parties should drop this
> holier-than-thou charade of self determination, and
> come to a sensible solution which is acceptable to
> everyone,and everyone will have to budge from their
> stated positions.
> By the way,I am not batting for anyone.As much as I
> know myself,which is not much anyway,If I had been a
> Pakistani\Kashmiri\Icelandic\Hindu\Muslim\Rastafarian\Lennonist(Imagine
> theres no country)\Leninist\charsi etc.. my opinion
> would have been the same.
> regards
> Rahul
>
>
>
>
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