[Reader-list] Gun Salutes for August 15

inder salim indersalim at gmail.com
Mon Aug 18 00:12:21 IST 2008 

Dear Shuddha,

thanks for this long inspiring mail which eluciated upon Inder Salim
sound and its intrepretation. your reflections are always scholarly
and full of thought. i am likely to preseve this piece in my archives.
 good wishes to you.


Dear Aditya Raj kaul

On Edgware Road in London there is two big shops called Al Mustafa.
All they sell is, Hukkas, beautiful Quranic verses in a decorative
motifs and other kitchy items for drawing rooms.  I asked the
beautiful lady at the counter, how much is this item ( which had Allah
written on it ) she said £5, and what about that ( which had Muhammad
in it ) she replied £5. and i said if i will buy both of the them
then how much it will cost me, she instantly replied £ 9 pounds;  and
you know, even a strong believer from valley who prays five times a
days wont spend £ 9 for  a 2  inch glassy items, let alone this
'confused ' man.

that is how  slogan Nizam-e-Mustafa also works in the valley. Once you
go into real business, then it is entirely differnet. But if you go
into the rehetoric  then some Hindus also talk about R the valley.how
much they drank it on the spont. i was eye witness to that. So dont
worry  about any Nizam-e-Mustafa. It does not exist in Pakisan either,
it will not be there in the  New Free Kashmir.
am Rajya, and you know well how Narender Modi implemented it. and i
remember  when Jamat-e-Islami looted liquour shop in
let lord Shiva bless you
love
is


On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
<kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> An interesting thing just happened.
>
> I'm returning from a NDTV debate (If i can take the liberty to call it one)
> on the current developments in J&K. The Panelists included a wide range of
> opinions from valley, Jammu and also from here in New Delhi; among them
> Abhishek Manu Singhvi, Swapan Das Gupta, Muzafar Baig, Sajad Lone, Ashok
> Khajuria, Omar Abdulalh and my friend Sonia Jabbar were the few voices.
>
> It was as expected a very heated debate and matters became worse when Sajad
> Lone challenged Jammu Samiti and Kashmiri Pandits to claim their right on
> the Baltal Land.
>
> At almost the end of the show, BJP's voice from Jammu Ashok Khajuria rightly
> said, "Kashmiri Separatists and vested interests want to create a
> Nizam-e-Mustafa" in the valley. To which, the Kashmiri Muslims in the studio
> screamed, "Inshallah".
>
> Now, thats what speaks for their Secularism !!! An Islamic State....
>
>
> On 8/17/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>
>> You obviously understand that that statement is rhetorical, and you
>> know what it is trying to say. If only you could go past your ow
>> rhetoric...
>>
>> On 8/17/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>> > :)
>> >
>> > On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Yes , they are . For once they are telling a truth...for a change
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <
>> mail at shivamvij.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > Say that in Srinagar to a shikawala or a taxi driver or a shopkeeper
>> > > > and you know what you will hear?
>> > > >
>> > > > "We are all terorrists here."
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > best
>> > > > shivam
>> > > >
>> > > > On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > Yeah ...i agree .Geelani is a terrorist.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
>> > > <mail at shivamvij.com>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > Pawan bhai, you might want to read my reply again.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > While Geelani's Pak inclinations are well known, he is not the
>> only
>> > > > > > leader, his is not he only view. Even he has been forced to tone
>> hem
>> > > > > > down over the years because public sentiment is for azadi. And if
>> you
>> > > > > > talk to people in Srinagar, they will often tell you that the
>> Pakistan
>> > > > > > bogey is often an act of provocation, and for various reasons
>> most
>> > > > > > Kashmiris don't trust Pakistan, don't see that as an option.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Okay, let's stop debating this how about a referendum?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > And the Kashmir azadi movement has its share of communal elements
>> but
>> > > > > > to equate Geelani with Advani or Modi is a bit too much. I am not
>> > > > > > getting into the chap act of body counts...
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > best
>> > > > > > shivam
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > Shivam,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Make no mistake , that Kashmir "Azadi" agitation is no less
>> > > dangerous
>> > > > > than
>> > > > > > > an Al Qaida or a Talibani Movement.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > What do you mean by "Pakitsan Se rishta Kya...la illa illa laa
>> "
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > And Geelani saying "Jeeve Jeeve Pakistan"
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Kashmir so called Azaadi struggle has been the most dangerous
>> and
>> > > > > communal
>> > > > > > > movement which has effected even the world super powers.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > For more info log on www.ikashmir.net
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Pawan
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
>> > > > > <mail at shivamvij.com>
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > Dear Sonia,
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > This is not the first time you are equating the azadi
>> movement in
>> > > > > > > > Kashmir with the Hindutva movement. While Shuddha has already
>> > > laboured
>> > > > > > > > over the diference in the two cases, I want to add that this
>> is a
>> > > > > > > > dangerously sweeping comparison, and that you can go only so
>> far
>> > > with
>> > > > > > > > it. This generalised comparison helps you label the entire
>> azadi
>> > > > > > > > sruggle as cmmunal, as being mtivated by Hindu/Mulsim
>> concerns.
>> > > While
>> > > > > > > > I don't deny the absence of this, do you admit that the
>> Kashmiri
>> > > > > > > > Muslims mainly want independence from India - not Hindus? If
>> it
>> > > was
>> > > > > > > > about the Hindu-Muslim, Hindutva-Jehad binaries, wouldn't the
>> > > majority
>> > > > > > > > demand be for Pakistan rather than an independent
>> nation-state?
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Warmly,
>> > > > > > > > Shivam
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On 8/16/08, S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > Hi Shuddha,
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > A quick & hopefully short reply to some of the points you
>> have
>> > > > > raised.
>> > > > > > > You
>> > > > > > > > > may not have named it as such but the feeling in the valley
>> is
>> > > very
>> > > > > much
>> > > > > > > > > about a Hindu state resorting to greater violence against
>> Muslim
>> > > > > Kashmir
>> > > > > > > > > than Hindu Jammu. While it is easy to arrive at this
>> conclusion
>> > > > > given
>> > > > > > > > > India¹s history of communal violence, I was merely trying
>> to
>> > > point
>> > > > > out
>> > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > > in Kashmir the situation was slightly different, and
>> obviously
>> > > not
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > > accuse
>> > > > > > > > > you of communal thinking.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I read with some surprise your taking issue with my use of
>> the
>> > > > > phrase,
>> > > > > > > > > Œbaying for blood¹ and your accompanying list of slogans
>> used
>> > > during
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > protests.  It is incomplete and I could add a few more but
>> I
>> > > really
>> > > > > > > don¹t
>> > > > > > > > > want to vitiate and already horrible situation.  I¹m sure
>> you
>> > > > > remember
>> > > > > > > 1989
>> > > > > > > > > and the slogan ŒJai Sri Ram.¹  Advani had used a similar
>> > > argument
>> > > > > when
>> > > > > > > > > challenged.  He said something like, what is communal or
>> > > provocative
>> > > > > > > about
>> > > > > > > > > taking God¹s name?  What, indeed, except when there is a
>> > > thousand
>> > > > > strong
>> > > > > > > mob
>> > > > > > > > > screaming God¹s name and marching towards Muslim localities
>> as
>> > > they
>> > > > > did
>> > > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > > Œ92 and Œ93.  I would describe that as baying for blood.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Incidentally, here¹s a report in the HT on the Police vs.
>> CRPF
>> > > > > > > culpability:
>> > > > > > > > > -----------------------------------------------
>> > > > > > > > > THE KASHMIR situation has taken a new turn with police
>> becoming
>> > > the
>> > > > > main
>> > > > > > > > > target of protesters.
>> > > > > > > > > There have also been calls for their social boycott.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > The local population is angry for the police's "brutal
>> conduct
>> > > > > against
>> > > > > > > their
>> > > > > > > > > own people".
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > State police has been active alongside the CRPF to crush
>> > > protests in
>> > > > > > > Kashmir
>> > > > > > > > > over the past four days, which left 23 dead and around 200
>> > > injured.
>> > > > > > > > > Incidentally, the contingent that fired on the "cross-LOC"
>> > > marchers
>> > > > > in
>> > > > > > > Uri
>> > > > > > > > > on August 10 was led by a local Khursheed Khan, station
>> house
>> > > > > officer of
>> > > > > > > > > Sheeri police station. Senior Hurriyat leader Shaikh Aziz
>> and
>> > > two
>> > > > > others
>> > > > > > > > > were killed in the incident. Mirwaiz Ummer Faroog said "it
>> was a
>> > > > > target
>> > > > > > > > > killing".
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Hundreds of people attacked Khan's residence in Baramullah
>> and
>> > > > > torched
>> > > > > > > it.
>> > > > > > > > > They also torched Sheeri police station. Several such
>> incidents
>> > > have
>> > > > > > > been
>> > > > > > > > > reported across the Valley People at Handwara have called
>> for a
>> > > > > social
>> > > > > > > > > boycott of cops and their relatives. Residents of
>> Srinagar's Raj
>> > > > > Bagh
>> > > > > > > > > locality took out a protest march on Wednesday, asking the
>> > > police
>> > > > > > > "whether
>> > > > > > > > > they stand for India or for their people in Kashmir". This
>> is in
>> > > > > stark
>> > > > > > > > > contrast to 1990, when militancy erupted. Police then were
>> seen
>> > > as
>> > > > > > > > > "friendly". Hundreds of cops had resigned and joined
>> militancy.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
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