[Reader-list] Gun Salutes for August 15

inder salim indersalim at gmail.com
Mon Aug 18 00:23:02 IST 2008 

 Dear Aditya Raj Kaul
>
> On Edgware Road in London there is two big shops called Al Mustafa.
> All they sell is, Hukkas, beautiful Quranic verses in a decorative
> motifs and other kitchy items for drawing rooms.  I asked the
> beautiful lady at the counter, how much is this item ( which had Allah
> written on it ) she said £5, and what about that ( which had Muhammad
> in it ) she replied £5. and i said if i will buy both of the them
> then how much it will cost me, she instantly replied £ 9 pounds;  and
> you know, even a strong believer from valley who prays five times a
> days wont spend £ 9 for  a 2  inch glassy items, let alone this
> 'confused ' man.
>
> that is how  slogan Nizam-e-Mustafa also works in the valley. Once you
> go into real business, then it is entirely differnet. But if you go
> into the rehetoric  then some Hindus also talk about Ram Raj, and you know how Narender Modi implemented it
and i rememvber, when Jamat-i-Islami looted liquour shops in the
valley how much they drank it on the spot. I was eye
witness to that in lal Chowk of Anantnag. . So dont
> worry  about any Nizam-e-Mustafa. It does not exist in Pakisan either,
> it will not be there in the  New Free Kashmir.
>
> May lord Shiva bless you
> love
> is
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>> An interesting thing just happened.
>>
>> I'm returning from a NDTV debate (If i can take the liberty to call it one)
>> on the current developments in J&K. The Panelists included a wide range of
>> opinions from valley, Jammu and also from here in New Delhi; among them
>> Abhishek Manu Singhvi, Swapan Das Gupta, Muzafar Baig, Sajad Lone, Ashok
>> Khajuria, Omar Abdulalh and my friend Sonia Jabbar were the few voices.
>>
>> It was as expected a very heated debate and matters became worse when Sajad
>> Lone challenged Jammu Samiti and Kashmiri Pandits to claim their right on
>> the Baltal Land.
>>
>> At almost the end of the show, BJP's voice from Jammu Ashok Khajuria rightly
>> said, "Kashmiri Separatists and vested interests want to create a
>> Nizam-e-Mustafa" in the valley. To which, the Kashmiri Muslims in the studio
>> screamed, "Inshallah".
>>
>> Now, thats what speaks for their Secularism !!! An Islamic State....
>>
>>
>> On 8/17/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> You obviously understand that that statement is rhetorical, and you
>>> know what it is trying to say. If only you could go past your ow
>>> rhetoric...
>>>
>>> On 8/17/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>> > :)
>>> >
>>> > On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > Yes , they are . For once they are telling a truth...for a change
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <
>>> mail at shivamvij.com>
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > > > Say that in Srinagar to a shikawala or a taxi driver or a shopkeeper
>>> > > > and you know what you will hear?
>>> > > >
>>> > > > "We are all terorrists here."
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > best
>>> > > > shivam
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > > > Yeah ...i agree .Geelani is a terrorist.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
>>> > > <mail at shivamvij.com>
>>> > > > > wrote:
>>> > > > > > Pawan bhai, you might want to read my reply again.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > While Geelani's Pak inclinations are well known, he is not the
>>> only
>>> > > > > > leader, his is not he only view. Even he has been forced to tone
>>> hem
>>> > > > > > down over the years because public sentiment is for azadi. And if
>>> you
>>> > > > > > talk to people in Srinagar, they will often tell you that the
>>> Pakistan
>>> > > > > > bogey is often an act of provocation, and for various reasons
>>> most
>>> > > > > > Kashmiris don't trust Pakistan, don't see that as an option.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > Okay, let's stop debating this how about a referendum?
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > And the Kashmir azadi movement has its share of communal elements
>>> but
>>> > > > > > to equate Geelani with Advani or Modi is a bit too much. I am not
>>> > > > > > getting into the chap act of body counts...
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > best
>>> > > > > > shivam
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > On 8/17/08, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > > > > > Shivam,
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > Make no mistake , that Kashmir "Azadi" agitation is no less
>>> > > dangerous
>>> > > > > than
>>> > > > > > > an Al Qaida or a Talibani Movement.
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > What do you mean by "Pakitsan Se rishta Kya...la illa illa laa
>>> "
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > And Geelani saying "Jeeve Jeeve Pakistan"
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > Kashmir so called Azaadi struggle has been the most dangerous
>>> and
>>> > > > > communal
>>> > > > > > > movement which has effected even the world super powers.
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > For more info log on www.ikashmir.net
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > Pawan
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
>>> > > > > <mail at shivamvij.com>
>>> > > > > > > wrote:
>>> > > > > > > > Dear Sonia,
>>> > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > This is not the first time you are equating the azadi
>>> movement in
>>> > > > > > > > Kashmir with the Hindutva movement. While Shuddha has already
>>> > > laboured
>>> > > > > > > > over the diference in the two cases, I want to add that this
>>> is a
>>> > > > > > > > dangerously sweeping comparison, and that you can go only so
>>> far
>>> > > with
>>> > > > > > > > it. This generalised comparison helps you label the entire
>>> azadi
>>> > > > > > > > sruggle as cmmunal, as being mtivated by Hindu/Mulsim
>>> concerns.
>>> > > While
>>> > > > > > > > I don't deny the absence of this, do you admit that the
>>> Kashmiri
>>> > > > > > > > Muslims mainly want independence from India - not Hindus? If
>>> it
>>> > > was
>>> > > > > > > > about the Hindu-Muslim, Hindutva-Jehad binaries, wouldn't the
>>> > > majority
>>> > > > > > > > demand be for Pakistan rather than an independent
>>> nation-state?
>>> > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > Warmly,
>>> > > > > > > > Shivam
>>> > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > On 8/16/08, S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > > > > > > > Hi Shuddha,
>>> > > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > > A quick & hopefully short reply to some of the points you
>>> have
>>> > > > > raised.
>>> > > > > > > You
>>> > > > > > > > > may not have named it as such but the feeling in the valley
>>> is
>>> > > very
>>> > > > > much
>>> > > > > > > > > about a Hindu state resorting to greater violence against
>>> Muslim
>>> > > > > Kashmir
>>> > > > > > > > > than Hindu Jammu. While it is easy to arrive at this
>>> conclusion
>>> > > > > given
>>> > > > > > > > > India¹s history of communal violence, I was merely trying
>>> to
>>> > > point
>>> > > > > out
>>> > > > > > > that
>>> > > > > > > > > in Kashmir the situation was slightly different, and
>>> obviously
>>> > > not
>>> > > > > to
>>> > > > > > > accuse
>>> > > > > > > > > you of communal thinking.
>>> > > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > > I read with some surprise your taking issue with my use of
>>> the
>>> > > > > phrase,
>>> > > > > > > > > Œbaying for blood¹ and your accompanying list of slogans
>>> used
>>> > > during
>>> > > > > the
>>> > > > > > > > > protests.  It is incomplete and I could add a few more but
>>> I
>>> > > really
>>> > > > > > > don¹t
>>> > > > > > > > > want to vitiate and already horrible situation.  I¹m sure
>>> you
>>> > > > > remember
>>> > > > > > > 1989
>>> > > > > > > > > and the slogan ŒJai Sri Ram.¹  Advani had used a similar
>>> > > argument
>>> > > > > when
>>> > > > > > > > > challenged.  He said something like, what is communal or
>>> > > provocative
>>> > > > > > > about
>>> > > > > > > > > taking God¹s name?  What, indeed, except when there is a
>>> > > thousand
>>> > > > > strong
>>> > > > > > > mob
>>> > > > > > > > > screaming God¹s name and marching towards Muslim localities
>>> as
>>> > > they
>>> > > > > did
>>> > > > > > > in
>>> > > > > > > > > Œ92 and Œ93.  I would describe that as baying for blood.
>>> > > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > > Incidentally, here¹s a report in the HT on the Police vs.
>>> CRPF
>>> > > > > > > culpability:
>>> > > > > > > > > -----------------------------------------------
>>> > > > > > > > > THE KASHMIR situation has taken a new turn with police
>>> becoming
>>> > > the
>>> > > > > main
>>> > > > > > > > > target of protesters.
>>> > > > > > > > > There have also been calls for their social boycott.
>>> > > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > > The local population is angry for the police's "brutal
>>> conduct
>>> > > > > against
>>> > > > > > > their
>>> > > > > > > > > own people".
>>> > > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > > State police has been active alongside the CRPF to crush
>>> > > protests in
>>> > > > > > > Kashmir
>>> > > > > > > > > over the past four days, which left 23 dead and around 200
>>> > > injured.
>>> > > > > > > > > Incidentally, the contingent that fired on the "cross-LOC"
>>> > > marchers
>>> > > > > in
>>> > > > > > > Uri
>>> > > > > > > > > on August 10 was led by a local Khursheed Khan, station
>>> house
>>> > > > > officer of
>>> > > > > > > > > Sheeri police station. Senior Hurriyat leader Shaikh Aziz
>>> and
>>> > > two
>>> > > > > others
>>> > > > > > > > > were killed in the incident. Mirwaiz Ummer Faroog said "it
>>> was a
>>> > > > > target
>>> > > > > > > > > killing".
>>> > > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > > Hundreds of people attacked Khan's residence in Baramullah
>>> and
>>> > > > > torched
>>> > > > > > > it.
>>> > > > > > > > > They also torched Sheeri police station. Several such
>>> incidents
>>> > > have
>>> > > > > > > been
>>> > > > > > > > > reported across the Valley People at Handwara have called
>>> for a
>>> > > > > social
>>> > > > > > > > > boycott of cops and their relatives. Residents of
>>> Srinagar's Raj
>>> > > > > Bagh
>>> > > > > > > > > locality took out a protest march on Wednesday, asking the
>>> > > police
>>> > > > > > > "whether
>>> > > > > > > > > they stand for India or for their people in Kashmir". This
>>> is in
>>> > > > > stark
>>> > > > > > > > > contrast to 1990, when militancy erupted. Police then were
>>> seen
>>> > > as
>>> > > > > > > > > "friendly". Hundreds of cops had resigned and joined
>>> militancy.
>>> > > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------
>>> > > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > --
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> > National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
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