[Reader-list] Simi Garewal?

[Kshmendra Kaul]

Dear Shuddha
 
I would have liked to see your comment on the suggestion put forward by me:
 
"""" ....the question arises for the Indian Muslims that should they be thinking about using the Islamic Flag without the Crescent and Star so that it does not appear to be close to being the flag of Pakistan?"""""
 
For an Islamic flag, I would have thought that the most appropiate symbol (if one had to be used) would be 'Allah' or the 1st Kalima (La Il-Lah il Al-Lah).
 
In continuation, even if unconnected: 
 
Organised Religion corrupts the Spiritual Quest. Organised religion needs Symbols. The Symbols often become the obsessive identification with the religion and the philosophy of the spiritual quest that in the first place led to the religion and it's symbols becomes secondary and gets ignored. 
 
Symbols are interesting.
 
The Muslims of the Indian Subcontinent have adopted '786' as numerical representation of the invocation "Bismillal al Rehmaan Al Raheem". Most Purist Islamists consider it as "Biddah" (practice not associated with Mohammed and therefore an evil innovation). 
 
The Hindus similarly seem to have adopted the "Trishul" (Trident) and "OM". I have yet to ascertain if either or both were used in the far far past in places where they logically would been. That is the temples.
 
The Christian Cross has an interesting variant in the Coptic Christian Cross, which has seen interesting evolution to it's current day design from Coptic Cross which was derived from the Coptic Gnostic (or Ankh) Cross which in turn was a mutation of the Egyptian Ankh (Hieroglyphic character). 
 
Kshmendra 
  
 


--- On Wed, 12/3/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:

From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal?
To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
Cc: "Naeem Mohaiemen" <naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com>, "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 4:32 PM


Dear Kshmendra, Dear Naeem. 


The crescent moon and star are not, strictly speaking an Islamic symbol. You are right. They happen to be the crest of the Ottoman ruling dynasty, which somehow got metastasized, since the rise of the Ottomans to the general Muslim world. You do not find it prior to the rise of the Ottoman caliphate (an episode quite late in Islamic history). its use by all sorts of Muslims, Ottoman or not, (many of them former subjects of the Ottoman empire) today, is an instance of their amnesia regarding the history of symbols and visual tropes in Islam





On 03-Dec-08, at 4:19 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote:


Dear Naeem
 
Simi Garewal for sure has interviewed Benazir on her show "Rendezvous with Simi Garewal" for the 'Star World' channel
 
That is probably what you saw. I do not know of any other 'oldtime' actress who conducts interviews.
 
She has apologised for her "Pakistani Flags" comment. She missed the fact that 'those' flags did not have the vertical White Stripe. I guess since 'peace' was a casualty, the 'white stripe' was not taken into account.
 
That brings me to the question to educate myself. Where does the 'Crescent Moon and Star' motif  come from as an Islamic symbol?  
 
All accounts suggest that it has nothing to do with Islam as such and predates Islam. The know linkage for introduction into Islamic Symbolism is after the Islamisation of Constantinople where it was already a part of the flag for the Ottomon Empire.
 
The Star is used on the flags of islamic countries with varying designs and numbers. The suggestion therefore that the Star if 5 pointed represents the 5 pillars of Islam does not seem to be valid.
 
If this is factual, then the question arises for the Indian Muslims that should they be thinking about using the Islamic Flag without the Crescent and Star so that it does not appear to be close to being the flag of Pakistan?
 
Kshmendra
 
 
 


--- On Wed, 12/3/08, Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com>
Subject: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal?
To: "reader-list at sarai.net" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 3:18 PM


On Jet Airways Dhaka-Delhi flight last week, there was a full-length
interview of Benazir Bhutto that kept running on one channel. Very
odd. But anyay, my question is, was the interviewer Simi Garewal or
someone else? I can't keep the oldtime filmi stars straight, so I may
have mixed her up.


I ask because now I read reports of Simi G talking about "Pakistani
flags" in India, so just trying to connect.


But I may have the interviewer mixed up, can someone shed light?
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Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net