[Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits

[Aditya Raj Kaul]

Dear Javed,

Everyone thinks that he/she is on the right path. You and me are no
different. Hope you agree to this. My concern of mentioning it was only to
tell you that two different case studies cannot be clubbed together at such
an urgent and important juncture where our county is facing Terror. I never
said everyone else is mistaken, only you to a little degree, Sir. I won't
reform everyone, never did I mention it neither do I intend to. I'll only
place my view and a just argument wherever necessary.

We can debate, discuss and come to your 'Saffron' groups at a later stage
when our country is done with handling terrorism from across the border.
Isn't that logic ?

In my last e-mail, I had just quoted an example on terrorism in Kashmir,
which has originated from the same Pakistan region which has also been
feeding terrorists responsible for Mumbai Attacks. We should have no doubt
in our minds that Mumbai carnage is the manifestation of the continued
onslaught by the pan Islamists against secular India.

Now, more than me, I suppose you are deviating this topic, for very obvious
reasons. I won't comment much on the second part of your e-mail. You have
problems with Kashmiri Hindus on this forum now, just because they speak
openly against 'Islamic Terrorism' and give that very important 'other
viewpoint' which has been missing in forums such as these and obviously
elsewhere or maybe is deliberately kept out of the page.

You have taken it very much further Javed. In contrary I see a ray in you
which is defending 'Islamic Terror' outfits such as JuD and LeT etc. Why
bring in so called Saffron Outfits' here in the discussion out of nowhere?
And, this is just always, maybe not by you, but someone else here.

Obviously, there can be no similarity between right and the left, BJP and
the CPI, and here SFI, AISA and 'Saffron Outfits'. I didn't mention those
ultra radical communist agencies because they have some connection. But,
even they are responsible for many incidents in the recent past which have
been unfortunate and against humanity. You are wise enough to guess and
understand.

Lastly, My initial response to your 'reactionary' e-mail was to guide you to
the root cause of terrorism in the region. We all know it started with cross
border terrorism in Kashmir and JKLF was one strong killer group which
slaughtered hundreds openly, and now those terrorists are like state guests.
Now, that attacks and bombs go off like 'Diwali Pattaks' anywhere and
everywhere here in India, Government is 'thinking' of taking some strong
action or maybe tough laws.

I hope I've made in this mail myself understood to the core. I'm ready to
debate further, but lets mve forward. No point sticking to the same old
lines again and again.

Thanks

.

On 12/13/08, Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Aditya
> So, you are the only one on the right path, and everyone else is at
> mistake, and you won't sit quiet until you reform everyone. Good to
> know.
> By the way, you ask me not to bring un-related issues on the same
> page. But since I have been seeing your mails on Sarai list, I see
> that whatever is topic, you (and your friend KPs) always stretch it to
> the problems of Kashmiri pundits. If we are talking of communalism in
> UP or Gujarat, you shout: why isn't no one talking of the plight of
> KPs. When we are talking of farmers committing suicides, you ask, why
> is not on concerned about KPs, and so on. So, it is you who bring
> unrelated issues together. In this case itself, when I mentioned
> banning saffron extremists, you brought in SFI and AISA, although I
> haven't understood what is the connection. I gave you that list of
> dates (of origin of those organizations) only as a reaction to your
> mail about "initators".
>
> J
>
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
>
> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Javed,
> >
> > Your initial e-mail with a comment attached to a news item was nothing
> but
> > of course a reaction to it. Now, I don't know why you bring in our
> internal
> > problems here in India (if at all they are ) when we are discussing about
> > Terrorism originating from Pakistan. One cannot take both these things in
> > the same wave-length and things need not be mentioned on same page.
> >
> > Surely, its futile discussing who the 'initiator' is. But, you cannot
> just
> > rubbish it without an argument.
> >
> > Also, if not 'initiators' of Terrorism; but surely the modern origin of
> > Terrorism is from Pakistan (and PoK) and needs to be fully eliminated,
> not
> > alone through sanctions, banning and strong tough laws but as well
> physical
> > exercise if needed. Its high time. We've suffered enough from them.
> Pakistan
> > cannot get away with it merely through PR exercise of 'House Arresting'
> few
> > master Terrorists only to be released later and treated as state guests.
> >
> > Well, it isn't me who says Islam is responsible for this bloody tirade.
> It
> > is LeT, JuD and other such 'Islamic Fanatic' groups which claim to do
> this
> > as messengers of Allah. Am I wrong ? I'm as well a victim of this crazy
> > blind Jihad.
> >
> > Lets not deviate when our country is facing such a serious terrorist
> threat.
> > Lets be united again this menace of Terrorism.
> >
> > I'm no one to give you befitting reply; but surely would always correct
> your
> > mistakes, and take you on the right path, till I can and I know. Yes, we
> > need to be positive, neutral and fight unitedly. But this doesn't mean we
> > yet again tolerate and forget this 'Jihad' business launched by some
> > crackpots.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Aditya Raj Kaul
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha
> >> My original message was not in reaction to the Pakistanis efforts to
> >> ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be banned
> >> (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't start the "initiators"
> >> debate. It is futile discussing who is the "first" initiator. You will
> >> go on and on and will never be able to decide who threw the first
> >> stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which created all the
> >> trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, peaceful and rosy
> >> place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any religion should be
> >> used to claim as the real cause of all trouble.
> >>
> >> So, let us try to stop this "befitting reply" culture among ourselves,
> >> and try to be very practical. Let us look at the history of each group
> >> that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for banning them. I
> >> am not trying to defend any group or individual - but we have to be
> >> honest and just in this case.
> >>
> >> Javed
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul
> >>  <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Dear Srirang,
> >> >
> >> > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic Terrorism'
> >> which
> >> > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this provocation
> in
> >> > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally
> >> extremist.
> >> >
> >> > Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism in
> >> > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha <jha.srirang at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that tries
> to
> >> >> justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because
> action
> >> is
> >> >> being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I wish
> >> Javed
> >> >> could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist
> >> organizations
> >> >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition.
> >> >>
> >> >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is
> befitting.
> >> >>
> >> >> Srirang Jha
> >> >>
> >> >>   On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul <
> >> >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
> >> >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference
> >> >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat
> >> >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI)
> >> >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA)
> >> >>> 6) CPI
> >> >>>         ..................there are many more.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant
> >> >>> provocation.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Anybody initiating this movement ?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I'm all ears..
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks
> >> >>> Aditya Raj Kaul
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 12/11/08, Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics
> and
> >> >>> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I
> >> >>> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror
> >> >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A
> movement
> >> >>> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say?
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani
> >> >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN
> Security
> >> >>> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and
> >> >>> > charity
> >> >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government
> >> >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch )
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN
> >> >>> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the
> >> >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed
> as
> >> >>> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has
> >> >>> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities
> by
> >> >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would
> >> >>> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement
> said.
> >> >>> > _________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >>
> >> > _________________________________________
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>



-- 

-- 
Aditya Raj Kaul