[Reader-list] Is Kasab a Pakistani?

[Pawan Durani]

Javed,

Honestly, i hated to view Mumbai blast as a hindu / muslim issue ....however
I must admit that Fatima let me down.

It was a covert act by her to create a suspicion.

Coming back to the Identity card issue , I do believe that we in India
should create the national ID bank. We may have hiccups but then we need to
start.

Let us not be deterred by failures in system , it is possible wherever there
are humans and technology.

We need the system to build up as somehow we have to control the
'uncontrolled' inflitration.Look at the kind of inflitration we have in
North East from Bangladesh etc.

Do we need things to continue in the same way ?

Pawan

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Taha
> Thanks for clarifying in detail about why you sent the message about
> Pakistan's ID system NADRA. Before someone else answers your message
> and isolates your sentence "my heart goes out to Kasab..." and says:
> "see these bloody Muslims, their heart really goes out to Kasab the
> terrorist", let me say a couple of sentences about Pakistan's ID
> system.
>
> Someone might respond to your message saying that "what is this
> missing of the name in a database you are talking about. Man, it is
> Pakistan... the rouge state... does the missing of one name matter in
> that state? We in India have millions whose names are missing - how
> can you even imagine that Pakistan will have a system by which all
> citizens are counted and data-based?"
>
> Yes this is what I am talking about (since you are interested in ID
> systems): Pakistan has an amazingly developed system of recording data
> and issuing ID cards for every citizen. While in India, we are
> requiring to show our photo IDs for some essential services only now.
> In Pakistan, one needs to show their ID for every little job. If you
> go to a post office to send a speedpost, they need to see your ID.
> They need to see it while purchasing bus and train tickets. And all
> this not recently, but since at least 10-15 years. I noticed (in a
> trip) that an average Pakistani carries a number of xeroxes of his/her
> photo IDs in the pocket as it may be required anywhere.
>
> Same goes with the passports. Pakistani passports have bio-metric
> information and several other types of coding to identify and keep
> track of the person. I think all this is due to the constant pressure
> from the world to contain the terror thing. And I would be surprized
> if Kasab's name is not there in the database. But certainly, how does
> one trust what the authorities or the Pakistani media say about this.
> It is certainly possible to beat the system, even by those who manage
> the system. See the link below for the official version:
>
>
> http://www.nadra.gov.pk/DesktopModules/top/topmore.aspx?tabID=0&ItemID=57&bID=0&Mid=3026
>
> Javed
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Taha Mehmood
>  <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Pawan,
> >
> > Thank you for your comments. Please allow me to tell you that I am not at
> > all, in any way whatsoever even remotely interested in thinking whether
> > Kasab was promised virgins in Heaven nor I think I am informed enough to
> > speak whether he was a spy or whether Rehman Malik is stupid.
> >
> > Unfortunately, given my absolute ignorance on rather pertinent issues
> raised
> > by you, I can neither comment nor engage with you. So Pawan please
> forgive
> > me, if my post hinted at a possible dialogue on stupidity of Government
> > Officials, or uninhibited sexual forays of Islamic terrorists once they
> > reach their respective paradise or for that matter the grave and the
> > mysterious ways in which spies collaborate with government departments to
> > fulfill deep dark agendas. It was totally unintentional.
> >
> > However, I am deeply interested in the rather more banal issues of
> > -identity- and how it is imagined both on a individual level and on the
> > scale of a nation state. What is the nature of relationship between forms
> of
> > identification practice and the discourse of through which the idea of
> > identity is clustered.
> >
> > Kasab's post was sent to reader list in this regard. I wanted to draw
> > attention to what I believe is a very important case in Kasab, where we
> have
> > an individual who is asserting that he is a citizen of a State. The State
> is
> > refuting that assertion by citing an evidence that he is -in fact- not a
> > citizen because his name does not figure in a database. Now Pawan, if we
> > look closely at this guy Kasab and the dilemma that he is going through
> > right now, then we can perhaps grasp that what we have in front of us is
> a
> > classic case wherein even if we know that who we are, our assertion can
> be
> > challenged because our name does not figure in a database.
> >
> > We do know by what Rehman Malik says that, Kasab's name IS not there in
> the
> > Pakistani National Database, what we do not know, or will perhaps never
> know
> > is  whether Kasab's name WAS ever there??
> >
> > As far as the issue of identity is concerned my heart goes out to Kasab
> for
> > in the depths of my heart I want him to tell the world that he is
> Pakistani,
> > that his name is Kasab. That he is a Muslim. In other words I want him to
> > tell the world what is his name, his residence, his nationality and his
> > religion. In a sense his most primary documented identity. And I want the
> > world to beleive in him. Except for the fact that his name do not figure
> in
> > a database.
> >
> > I think for all us in India, it is important that we carefully consider
> all
> > the options before we embark on a digitized identification regime
> because,
> > Kasab's case is a clear marker of how our earnest assertion about our
> > individual identity may collapse if the cusodian of the memory of ones
> > identity decide to change its mind.
> >
> > Warm regards
> >
> > Taha
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Taha ,
> >>
> >> Let us not talk stupid like Rehman malik . It is a fact no country owns
> >> terrorist ,,,,,not even spies.....
> >>
> >> Even if the spy is a regular with any countrys defense/intelligence
> >> department....
> >>
> >> In thhis case Kasab was anyway a dacoit turn Jihadi who was promised
> >> virgins in Heaven....
> >>
> >> Pawan
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Taha Mehmood <
> 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> "I have already stated on record that Kasab's name is not on the NADRA
> >>> records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the record of all
> >>> Pakistani nationals."
> >>>
> >>> Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Please follow the full story below.
> >>>
> >>> Best
> >>>
> >>> Taha
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/kasab-pleads-pak-for-legal-aid-as-custody-extended/81259-3.html
> >>> Published on *Wed, Dec 24, 2008
> >>>
> >>> **New Delhi:* A desperate Ajmal Kasab - the lone terrorist captured
> alive
> >>> after the 26/11 terror strike in Mumbai - has once again sought the
> help
> >>> of
> >>> the Pakistan High Commission for a lawyer, but Pakistan is still
> refusing
> >>> to
> >>> accept his nationality.
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday, Kasab told the magistrate who was presiding over his
> custody
> >>> hearing that he wanted to contact the Pakistan High Commission for his
> >>> legal
> >>> defence.
> >>>
> >>> This is the second time that Kasab has asked Pakistan for legal aid -
> more
> >>> than sufficient proof that he is a Pakistan national. The first time
> that
> >>> he
> >>> had done this was when he had written a letter to the Pakistan High
> >>> Commission, a few days ago.
> >>>
> >>> Kasab has also been booked in the case of hijacking a Skoda car near
> >>> Girgaum
> >>> Chowpatti and fleeing in the same car along with another terrorist and
> >>> remanded to police custody till January 6, 2009 by Additional Chief
> >>> Metropolitan Magistrate NN Shrimangle on Wednesday.
> >>>
> >>> In his letter he had claimed that he and the other terrorists who had
> been
> >>> killed in the attacks were Pakistani and had sought a meeting with the
> >>> Pakistan High Commission. However, Islamabad did not pay heed to his
> >>> request, saying he was not a Pakistani.
> >>>
> >>> The letter asked Pakistani officials to claim the body of his fellow
> >>> terrorist Ismail Khan's body and give it an Islamic burial. In it,
> Kasab
> >>> also named Zaki-ur-rehman Lakhvi, believed to be the man who lured him
> >>> into
> >>> terrorism, Lashkar-e-Toiba chief Hafiz Sayeed and member Mohammad
> Kahafa
> >>> as
> >>> his trainers.
> >>>
> >>> Pakistan is currently examining the contents of Kasab's letter and is
> >>> expected to make a formal announcement on his status on Wednesday.
> >>> Meanwhile, Kasab will stay in police custody till January 6.
> >>>
> >>> Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik has said that the
> truth
> >>> about Kasab's identity will be out as soon as the letter has been
> >>> examined.
> >>>
> >>> "If you get some accusations, there is always a process of elimination
> to
> >>> prove something or disapprove something. We have received a letter and
> we
> >>> are examining it> i have already stated on record that Kasab's name is
> not
> >>> on the NADRA records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the
> record
> >>> of
> >>> all Pakistani nationals. So we are looking into it and whatever the
> truth
> >>> we'll bring to the notice of public," he said.
> >>>
> >>> On being asked if he had asked the Interpol chief to tell India to give
> >>> evidence, Malik stated, "Why should I ask? I think the Interpol chief's
> >>> verdict should be final because he was himself present in India. We
> draw
> >>> the
> >>> attention of the international community to this."
> >>> _________________________________________
> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >>> Critiques & Collaborations
> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >>> subscribe in the subject header.
> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >>> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>