[Reader-list] Why Positivist history lasts a long time

[sadan at sarai.net]

Dear Arnab,
I liked your naughty intellectual cajoling. I also admire your occasional
reference to me as if side-glancing and knowing that the person will
respond back. Its like that old song ( from childhood) shikaari ayega, dana
dalega, par hum chiriya nahi phansenge.
Let me assure you Arnab, that I am not getting impatient niether I am
defending. Now this is the first mistake when you say you are not defending
the message that goes out is you actually are defensive. Now the second
mistake, I was trying to clarify my position. The third mistake, what I
wrote was not as simplified as you cited.
Having made all these mistakes, let me go back to archives.
My core concern is to see archives not as something that orders/ defines
the production of the knowledge of an object but it is a relationship with
the object itself. This means all objects are potentially archives. Now, we
both know that this position is hard to defend and at times needless to
elaborate. On the one hand, there is nothing fresh that I am saying here.
On the other hand,there is certain amount of absurdity that is there in
this statement (i.e.the binary between the object and knowledge, knowledge
and relationship, relationship and the object etc). What I am struggling 
is how to recoin this relationship and relocate it at levels that can
address issues of experience. You may grant me some analytical space
between the production of an archives and experiences of an archive. I also
understand that we may not be able too far with the binary between
production and experience but I wish to hold this to gain some analytical
space that will then allow me to enter at cultural terrain. To simplify
here how cultures respond to archives and memory. And I want to articulate
how different cultures respond to archives, memory, archival memory and
memory in the archives differently. Does this mean anything in the
universal project of archives (Foucault's project is universal and though
post-colonial locations have mobilised his writings to gain insights, I
think we need to blow the subject from within too).
Arnab, if you find it impatient let me twist your word i m passionate. This
blurs criticality, as they say. This opens up new avanues,
wishes,
sadan.


      

On 5:40 pm 01/09/08 ARNAB CHATTERJEE <apnawritings at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Dear Prem,
>           Firstly, you cannot abandon the discussion
> at this juncture when it is getting more and more
> interesting and apparently a bit north-south but be
> sure we'll pull this up well and learn from each
> other; we are all students Prem. Now, Sadan is getting
> a bit impatient and at times angry largely because
> this is his subject and many of the positions which
> are being reviewed here are his positions and he will
> desperately try to defend them; infact he has all the
> right to do so. But the force of good reason will
> prevail and we shall all remain best of friends. Let
> me tell you, Sadan is my consultant for Bhojpuri music
> and despite a disagreement here--if there is one, we
> shall remain members of this 'warm fraternity of
> useless erudition'. So don't go away, because you'll
> rememeber Sadan making excuses for a very important
> work and then he came back when he had anticipated his
> essential and important engagement.  So you shall do.
> I love your questions, infact they have a cutting edge
> which compells people to answer. I assume in your hey
> days, all your love letters were answered. But to
> remind you and all, this question rose in conversation
> with Mahmood Faruqui and he is still to come.
>   Now your questions,
> 1. Now,how this poistivist historiography carries on
> is a big question and a very bitter question. I've
> seen people in Kolkata as well in Delhi or
> Maharashtra, talking about Benjamin or Hayden White
> and then while they write they do not reflect on the
> way they are writing. Everything is forgotten. And
> this thing goes on and on. Infact this is how a Partha
> Chatterjee or a Dipesh Chakraborty stand out, or say,
> Gautam Bhadra working with vernacular historiography
> attracts me. History as a form of writing if it is not
> relexive is just incorrect--after the linguistic turn
> and so much.
> And  I didn't answer your Hayden White excerpt which
> might be relevant here, here it is: if history has to
> go back to its literary sources, the case for a public
> archive becomes more dim. Or otherwise people going
> for an internal, semiotic historical reading of a text
> will be told to go to the state archives. People
> practising semiotic history will be told to unearth
> newspapers.
> 2.  The way you have quoted the original question, I
> fail to see why it can't be solved even in view of
> your second question.
>
> Thank You! Shall wait for your further objections.
> love
> arnab
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Prem Chandavarkar <prem.cnt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  On 08/01/2008, ARNAB CHATTERJEE
> >  <apnawritings at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> > >
> > >  Prem :
> > >  That a positvist de -temporality you don't
> >  understand,
> > >  I cannot believe that. All scientific paradigms,
> > >  formulas are readily a temporal.
> >
> >
> >  I did not say that I do not understand. One would be
> >  blind to claim that it
> >  does not exist - clearly it is not only prevalent
> >  but is also predominant.
> >  I just wondered about two points:
> >
> >     1. Should one continue to justify or validate a
> >  positivist
> >     de-temporality in history as a discipline?
> >     2. Can one address questions of archive without
> >  first addressing
> >     questions of history as a discipline?
> >
> >  I am traveling over the next one week, with
> >  infrequent access to mail, so
> >  will drop out of this discussion for a while. Which
> >  may be for the best, as
> >  I realise I have just been causing digressions, and
> >  at no stage have I
> >  touched your original question of whether there are
> >  forms of history that
> >  are free of archival dependence.
> >  Regards and all the best,
> >  Prem
> >
>
>
>
>       Bring your gang together - do your thing. Go to
> http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups
>
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