[Reader-list] Manipuri women coming to stir up Govt. at Delhi - Campaign against Militarization, Impunity and AFSPA 1958

[chanchal malviya]

See friends...
Lot of scraps are discussed here... All seem to be masters... 
No one here is less than any other... Great... Equality (no integrity)...

I am proposing a simple thing to all of the members..

Let us stop talking on issues... Let us stop assaulting others...
The list of such issues and assaults is never ending...

Let us start posting Strategies, Ideas that can mean Nationalism as understood by you all... 
Let us see how constructive we all are...


----- Original Message ----
From: Zainab Bawa <bawazainab79 at gmail.com>
To: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>; reader-list at sarai.net
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:05:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Manipuri women coming to stir up Govt. at Delhi - Campaign against Militarization, Impunity and AFSPA 1958

Dear Chanchal,

Please clarify what you mean when you say: 


Secondly, I have been to Kashmir too and have been eve teased on the roads by "Hindu" soldiers if you please. (I thought patriotic souls like you don't make distinctions on religious grounds when it comes to the army??!?!?!) 

I do not know you are a Hindu or a Muslim... If you can clarify this to me, but your name seems to be of a Muslims... And if so, this is expected.... I talked to a Muslim rickshaw wala at Bangalore and he tells that Muslims are facing huge problem in Kashmir by Army... What do they know and how do they know? Answer is known to all Muslims...

It does not matter whether I am Hindu or Muslim. You can consider me to be of whatever identity. In my previous communications with you, I have very clearly specified that if I was in a "Muslim" family, that does not mean it is the primary identity that I wear on me. It happens to be one of the identities that I adorn. Are you implying that because I happen to be "Muslim", it is obvious that I am going to "complain" about being eve teased by "Hindu" soldiers? If yes, then I publicly take offense to your statement. 

Again I repeat, that "Muslim" by itself means many things and therefore you when you bracket everyone as "Muslim", I cannot understand what you mean. 

Throughout your email you have tried to seek refuge in some history and some books, but nowhere have you even sought to be reflexive. Courage and 'guts' don't lie in accepting false propaganda. They lie in being to reflect on ourselves and where our prejudices and biases are coming from. 

Angrily,

Zainab




On Jan 18, 2008 11:11 AM, chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com> wrote:

Nice mail from you.. Let me answer each of them..

Firstly, until you do not tell me where you got the information from, I have no way to find out whether this is "correct" or "not". 

I cannot tell you this, and if required I can take my words back... I don't have any intention to convince others on this... I said it because I want the news should also contain names of Army personals involved in such incidences, which is never said by News channels.. hence they may be right or I may be right... 
 
Secondly, I have been to Kashmir too and have been eve teased on the roads by "Hindu" soldiers if you please. (I thought patriotic souls like you don't make distinctions on religious grounds when it comes to the army??!?!?!) 

I do not know you are a Hindu or a Muslim... If you can clarify this to me, but your name seems to be of a Muslims... And if so, this is expected.... I talked to a Muslim rickshaw wala at Bangalore and he tells that Muslims are facing huge problem in Kashmir by Army... What do they know and how do they know? Answer is known to all Muslims... 
 
Thirdly, in any conflict situation where the army is brought into the picture, there are likely to be violences committed against women, whether the women are Hindu or Muslim. If you have been to Kashmir, you don't need to be reminded of what happened to the girls in the Kunan Poshpora incident? (unless of course you choose not to see this aspect of "facts" because it does not suit your position!?!) If you have ever heard of violence in Punjab, you don't need to be told of how women, irrespective of whether they are "Hindu" or "Muslim" or "Punjabi" (in case you think "Hindu" don't apply to "Punjabi" women), have been raped/coerced into sleeping with the policemen. 


Molestations is crime, purely written as per Acts and Laws in this country... Is it same in Islamic culture? I do not want to bring out things that are internal to Muslims, they have a separate law for their society and anything happening in their society is not liable to thrown on Governance of India... Imrana case is one among many that says the story...
 
If you talk about Hindus, as per the religion, as per Vedas, God do not exist where women are not there.. Women are treated as Laxmi in every house.. There are various forms of Shakti that are worshipped (Durga puja as an example)... So, Hindus know how to treat women as a cultural practice.. 
The events of mistreating women, of course, takes place here also and there are clear laws to deal with them.. Unlike Islam a women can raise her voice with effect and without any man's support... 
 
Fourthly, on the second evening of our time in Srinagar, the boys and girls who had come with me, were sitting in the houseboat and discussing "India", "Kashmir" "Hindu-Muslim conflicts in India", etc. with Kashmiri boys. The Kashmiri boys referred to the violences against Muslims in "India" and the "Indian" girls and boys (I am going to be killed for calling one of them "Indian" because he is against state violence in Telangana) spoke of the exodus of the Pandits. At one point in the discussion, someone raised the point stating that there are enough "facts" that can be gotten to support "our points of view", and none of these would be wrong. The point is whether we are willing to budge from our positions and see other perspectives.
 
I do not understand what is voilence in your words... Do you mean to say that Hindus in India blasts bombs in Muslim areas.. Do you mean to say that Hindus in India rape Muslim women... Please, do not say things that has no meaning.. It is always the other way round.. and I need not present evidences.. there are hundreds of them taking place..   As far as riots are concerned.. they are nearly always initiated by Muslims and Hindus being in majority somehow proves to be among the suppressors.. For example, Gujarat riot was an initiation took by Muslims when they gathered in thousands with weapons and arms to burn around 60 hindus alive in train...  Do not tell me that Hindus are also doing the same in Islamic countries... I know that they all are paying Jazya and at times they are attacked, their temples are all broken... 
 
You can continue to support the army and get evidences about Muslim men in the army committing violence against Hindu women and you can work the flawed logics of your flawed mathematics posed with history the way you like to see it. And you can even continue to say that you don't hate Muslims but are wanting them to raise their voices against these happenings. But why don't you have the "guts" to get down from your position and see that violence is being committed against women in almost all conflict areas whether it is Punjab or North East or Kashmir or Palestine or Nicaragua or Iraq. And here it is not a question of Hindu women versus Muslim women versus Christian women versus alien women. It is a matter of women violated by the state which manifests itself in the form of the army. I hope that as a woman, you can be sensitive to this rather than brush this aside and get into your baseless (until you quote sources and evidence) ranting about "Hindu" and
 "Muslim"! 


Women has the right place in only one community of the world.. At least in terms of religious texts, it is Hinduism alone that teaches to worship women... Women are physically weak and due to this, they have faced problems largely in all societies, to which I agree totally..  Hindus have categorized it a criminalized act... Dear friend, Hindus have learnt to worship Cow as a mother, river as a mother, nation as a mother... Swami Vivekanand said - In west, except for mother all are women are life wife, but among Hindus every other women than wife is a mother... This is the basic culture of Hindus... The events that you talk about (mistreatment of women) takes place with girls and women who have discarded their religion.. they want freedom like western girl and they are facing problems alike western girls...   I am very clear on a simple point - if a girl or woman knows to have respect and honor for herself, no Hindus will ever try to even look at her even
 in disguise - this is the true meaning of Satitva (not the Sati pratha that is known to the world).... 
 
 
Apologies if I am sounding angry, but sometimes I just cannot make out what you are trying to communicate and then what you say ends up making me wonder as to where your sensitivities, logics and brain lie. 


You are welcome to attack... I do not mind...
As I said, if you are Muslim I do not mind at all... because Muslims know what they are doing... and they are united enough to do it.... 
The greatest enemy of Hindus are Hindus only... they never know what they are doing.. they never understand what is Secularism... they themselves never have respected their own religion... They have not even tried to know what is in their religion... They are idiots... And it is because of that they are facing problems... 
 
You can see, where Hindus are actually dominant (Areas of Gujarat can be taken as example).. you will not find problems even for Muslims... It the so called modern visioned Hindus, who live on Wine and think freedom is enjoying women and having girl friends that are facing all problems... Majority of molestations take place with these type of girls....  
 
But what I told about Kashmir is also true... Hindu women were dragged out of Hindu families and the families were thrown out of the state... There is no doubt about it... And I can list down to you the families who have still their women members missing and living in various regions of the nation... 
 
I have read Quran and I know what it teaches... How it starts and how it slowly hardens and shapes the mind of its followers... It is completely against all other religions.. and nowhere teaches peace... At least, you cannot convince someone who have read it... Anyway, that is a literature meant for Muslims and we do not have to do anything in that... we can from outside only suggest, do not kill, do not hate...   here is a group of people who are not religious - for even Supreme Court said that Hinduism is not a Religion, it is a way of life - then what is wrong with my Hindu friends to talk on Hinduism... for they would be actually talking Humanity then... 
 
Best regards,



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