[Reader-list] Are these humans nationalists?

Wali Arifi waliarifi3 at gmail.com
Sat Jan 19 14:18:44 IST 2008 

Dear all,



Last two decades of turbulence in Kashmir have taught us many lessons. One
being that there is always a tendency to exaggerate figures when it comes to
human loss.



But accuracy is always useful, and doesn't reduce the loss. In fact accuracy
adds to the dignity of those who have suffered the loss. In essence
multiplying figures is reflective of a tendency to take refuge in propaganda
and cloth the truth with it.



Mr Durrani in his post has said: "….for killing of more than 3000 Kashmiri
pandits. Not to talk of rape and arson against this community."



I wonder where this figure of "3000" has come from? What is Mr Durrani
trying to prove or achieve by multiplying the number of killings? Is he
helping the community by exaggerating the figure?



According to the Jammu and Kashmir government, 208 Kashmiri pandits were
killed in the state from 1990 to 2006.



It has to be understood that multiplying figures is dangerously
counterproductive for those who call themselves as the champions and
custodians of the interest of Kashmiri Pandits. Forget about the use of
words like genocide, holocaust, pogrom, ethnic cleansing and so on...



Kashmir's history will be written by those who have dreamed of a 'just
Kashmir'.



Let it be asked to Mr Durrani... Is he writing history, or trying to create
it to suite a program that translates 'democracy' into what it has actually
been in all practice...* *Majoritarianism.

Regards,

Wali

On Jan 19, 2008 11:16 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Fazli ,
>
> NamaskAr
>
> You are right . There is no point in narrating the stories to me . For I
> have been a victim of Islamic terrorism in Kashmir .
>
> If Kashmiri muslims are suffering today, which I do not disagree , it is
> because of their own stand. They welcomed back the Jihadis from Pakistan
> with sweets . They glorified *terrorism*. They did not utter a word when
> Kashmiri Hindus were killed.
>
> Even after so many years they still did not mind giving a rousing rception
> to terrorists like Bitta Karate who has admitted to selective killings of
> 40
> Kashmiri pandits.
>
> Fazli , do you still think there is a point telling me stories.
>
> God Bless
>
> Regards
>
> Pawan
>
> PS : I have some good friends still in Kashmir , and the reason is that
> they
> admit to what went wrong and not one who try to distort history.
>
>
> On 1/19/08, gowhar fazli <gowharfazili at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > What has made you believe no one got punished in
> > Kashmir.  Kashmir is a virtual hell where the whole
> > Muslim population is under imprisonment with torture
> > and humiliation 24X7 for the last seventeen years.
> > You have to be grossly insensitive not to notice
> > this... despite the fact that migration of Pandits
> > whether under state patronage or compulsion would not
> > have been a cake-walk.  In Kashmir, it is not just the
> > miscreants who may have harmed Pandits or damaged
> > public property or the intolerant 'fundamentalists'
> > who are being punished... (though you will find many
> > more times the Pandit population of such people
> > rotting in jails, killed without impunity, tortured or
> > 'disappeared'... )  Punishment in Kashmir is for
> > everybody without exception (even the stooges of the
> > state are not safe from itself).
> >
> > The biggest worry for you and me are the generations
> > that are being brought up under these inhuman
> > conditions while your kids grow up in decent
> > neighbourhoods (I presume).  With military to kick
> > them around everyday, you cannot expect them to grow
> > to love the state or YOU for not caring to change
> > this.  They will especially hate you for trying to
> > privilege injustice faced by the group you cling on to
> > so dearly, while justifying the injustice faced by
> > those whom you would rather wish dead.
> >
> > In the name of militancy and fundamentalism the whole
> > Kashmiri Muslim population has been successfully
> > criminalized.  Kashmiri Muslims are not faced with the
> > choice of being 'patriotic' or 'unpatriotic'.  This
> > choice has already been made for them by you and the
> > state.
> >
> > I seriously wonder if there is any point in telling
> > you all this.
> >
> >
> > --- Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > At least 6 years after the Gujarat riot , which
> > > started after some
> > > fundamentalists burnt alive scores of Hindu Pilgrims
> > > returning from Ayodhya
> > > , few people were convicted.
> > >
> > > Compare it with the case of Kashmiri Pandits , even
> > > after 18 years , not
> > > even a single person has been convicted in Kashmir
> > > for killing of more than
> > > 3000 Kashmiri pandits . Not to talk of rape and
> > > arson against this
> > > community.
> > >
> > > For that reason that the state is ruled by
> > > camouflage Islamic fundamentalist
> > > and Islamic groups are in majority.
> > >
> > > When will the justice be served to Kashmiri Pandits
> > > ? At least in Modis
> > > gujarat ....it has been served.....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1/18/08, S.Fatima <sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Friends
> > > > Look at these two news items for what's being
> > > > discussed on this list right now:
> > > >
> > > > 12 convicted in Bilkis Bano rape case
> > > > 18 Jan 2008, 1710 hrs IST,PTI
> > > > MUMBAI: Twelve persons, including a police
> > > official,
> > > > were convicted by a special court here on Friday
> > > in
> > > > the Bilkis Bano gang-rape case related to the
> > > > post-Godhra communal violence in Gujarat.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/12_convicted_in_Bilkis_Bano_rape_case/articleshow/2711484.cms
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > 'Modi gave us a free run to do whatever we wanted'
> > > > 26 Oct 2007, 0101 hrs IST,TNN
> > > >
> > > > NEW DELHI: "We made a complete rocket launcher
> > > here...
> > > > We distributed so many weapons, people were
> > > shocked.
> > > > We'd make them here and then test them."
> > > >
> > > > Here are some more such shocking 'testimonies':
> > > >
> > > > Suresh Richard, an accused in the Naroda Patiya
> > > > episode in which over 200 Muslims were officially
> > > > estimated to have been killed, said on camera that
> > > > Modi visited the locality the same evening,
> > > February
> > > > 28, and thanked the perpetrators of the violence
> > > > saying, "Aap dhanya ho... (You are blessed)."
> > > >
> > > > Rajendra Vyas, a senior VHP functionary who was on
> > > the
> > > > Sabarmati Express that was set on fire in Godhra,
> > > > said, "The Muslims had played a one-day match with
> > > > us... They have given us a target of 60... We have
> > > to
> > > > win this match at any cost, so don't stop till you
> > > > have made 600 runs... Modi gave us a free run to
> > > do
> > > > whatever we wanted... The police were with us..."
> > > >
> > > > Babu Bajrangi, a Bajrang Dal activist who has been
> > > in
> > > > the news for blocking the carnage movie Parzania
> > > from
> > > > being screened in the state, revealed that police
> > > > commissioner P C Pande, who has recently been
> > > moved
> > > > out of the DGP's post by the Election Commission,
> > > had
> > > > ordered that the 700-800 dead bodies at Naroda
> > > Patiya
> > > > be clandestinely picked up and dumped all over
> > > > Ahmedabad.
> > > >
> > > > "The commissioner came that night and said that if
> > > > there were so many dead at one place, it would
> > > create
> > > > trouble for him... After killing them, I felt like
> > > > Maharana Pratap... We killed at will, turned the
> > > place
> > > > into Haldighati."
> > > >
> > > > Key witness in the Godhra case, Ranjitsingh Patel,
> > > a
> > > > petrol pump employee who deposed that he had sold
> > > 140
> > > > litres of petrol to the accused on the eve of the
> > > > Sabarmati episode, admits that he and his
> > > colleague
> > > > were both paid Rs 50,000 each by Noel Parmar, the
> > > > chief investigating officer.
> > > >
> > > > "Noel saheb gave me fifty thousand, showed me a
> > > > photograph and said I had to identify him." Two
> > > BJP
> > > > members, Murli Mulchandani and Kakul Pathak, who
> > > > claimed to be eyewitnesses to the Godhra attack
> > > and
> > > > identified many of the accused, admit they were
> > > not
> > > > even at the station that fateful day.
> > > >
> > > > Mulchandani said: "I wasn't at the station, I was
> > > > sleeping at home. But the police put me among the
> > > > witnesses." Pathak said, "The police gave all the
> > > > names. None of the eyewitnesses wrote their
> > > > statements. The police did."
> > > >
> > > > Arvind Pandya, the government's counsel in the
> > > ongoing
> > > > proceedings before the Nanavati-Shah Commission
> > > > probing the carnage, said that the accused had
> > > nothing
> > > > to fear from either of the retired judges.
> > > "Nanavati
> > > > is a clever man... He wants money... Of the two
> > > > judges, Shah is intelligent... woh anpe wala hai
> > > (he
> > > > is our man)... he is sympathetic to us... Nanavati
> > > is
> > > > after money."
> > > >
> > > > Bharat Bhatt, a public prosecutor, said that he
> > > was
> > > > shielding the Hindu accused even as he was
> > > supposed to
> > > > be arguing against them.
> > > >
> > > > "I tell all the Hindus not to smile when they see
> > > > me... not to say a word to me. I tell them that I
> > > will
> > > > scold them if they do so... Sometimes I deceive
> > > > them... I scare them but later show my affections
> > > > too..."
> > > >
> > > > In the Gulbarg Society massacre, accused Madan
> > > Chawal
> > > > gives a first-hand account of how former Congress
> > > MP
> > > > Ehsan Jafri was hacked limb by limb and burned. He
> > > > says Jafri offered them money in return for his
> > > life.
> > > > "We said yes. When he came out, we took the money
> > > and
> > > > pounced on him."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >      Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from
> > > any browser, without
> > > > download. Go to
> > > http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php/
> > > > _________________________________________
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> >
> > Unfortunately, the balance of nature decrees that a super-abundance of
> > dreams is paid for by a growing potential for nightmares.
> >
> > Love is an act of endless forgiveness, a tender look which becomes a
> > habit.
> >
> > Peter Ustinov
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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