[Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome

A Khanna A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk
Tue Jan 22 16:19:42 IST 2008 

Quoting Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com>:

  With words, slogans and force you cant make people feel a
  nation.



............
out of curiousity, how do you make people feel a nation?

akshay

>
>
> KC
> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:29:00 -0800
> From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> To: tulunadu at hotmail.com
> CC: reader-list at sarai.net
>
>
>
> I again say.. I do not hate them...
> My language might be tough...
>
> But I want them to become Indian Muslim  rather then Islamic Muslim...
> I want them to join our slogan of 'Bharat mata ki Jai'.. which   
> Bukhari and the whole mulim community have rejected...
> I want them to join a road show against terrorism..
>
> I never wanted them to tell me Quran... I never wanted them to kill   
> us when we are worshipping our dieties in temples in the name of   
> Idolators as said in Quran..
> I want them to come out of those killing attitude and join the   
> loving attitude...
>
> But I am finding that Hindus are the first enemy of Hindus...
> They have forgotten to live... They are already dead (this is what   
> Lord Krishna exactly meant in 11th chapter when he showed Arjuna   
> that they have already been killed)... and hence it is easy for   
> Islam or Christianity to easily do thousands of Conversion...
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com>
> To: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 11:42:49 AM
> Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
>
>
>
> Glad to know that  the supreme being has chosen  you to save the nation
> Every religious fundamentalist believes that he is the chosen one   
> and his religion is the only path
> May the god bless you
>
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:20:59 -0800
> From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> To: tulunadu at hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> You are not to decide the right path...
> You are not among ones who can save the nation...
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com>
> To: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:43:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
>
>
>
> You are the best human I've ever come across.
> I can feel your energy,very vinrant, unfortunately it has not found   
> the right path
>
> God bless you
>
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:37:00 -0800
> From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> To: tulunadu at hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> You first sacrifice your house to a Muslim..
> And then we will think about Kashmir...
> You are an Idiot... and an Anti-National... Absolutely no doubt..
>
> People like you will create many Kashmirs.. and get every Hindu killed...
> It is better you convert...
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com>
> To: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:37:51 PM
> Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
>
>
> I'v no problem accepting Kashmir as a country, why not the Govt.   
> accept it? why should we sacrifice our soldiers there? How much   
> resources we have wasted on Kashmir all these years? how many people  
>  we'v got killed?
> Is there any meaning to it.
>
> Isn't it stupid- instead of holding what is with us tight, we   
> focused a lot on Kashmir and allowed the fire to spread to other   
> regions.
>
> KC
>
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:47:47 -0800
> From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> To: tulunadu at hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes.. I mean it...
> Because Kashmir is virtually a country now..
>
> It is army of India that is still holding it..
> And Muslims don't want that..
>
> This is the reason, you find so much of Muslims shouting on Army..
>
> This is the truth... Accept or Reject is your choice...
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com>
> To: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:10:18 PM
> Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
>
>
>
> I can start quoting dates with killing
> counts in countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir...
> Correct yourself please...
> You'v said countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and KASHMIR....!
>
>
>> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:21:53 -0800
>> From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
>> To: bawazainab79 at gmail.com; kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
>>
>> Don't mislead...
>> The world knows that trucks of Women are exported by Pakistan to   
>> India (all HIV effected) for spreading AIDS in India... (I will get  
>>  the Video uploaded on UTube on this, as this was shown by an   
>> external news channel)... and you say, women are raped in India..
>>
>> You do not require rape in your community... there is freedom of   
>> having more than one wife.. there is no freedom to women to report   
>> rapes... who will show what happens in your community...
>  The Quran says them all... and I have all senteces of Quran right   
> with me.... Believe me, all awaken Hindus are now reading Quran...   
> they all know what is there in that book...
>> So, Muslims cannot fool the world any more that Quran teaches   
>> Peace... and Islam is a peaceful religion...
>>
>> Modi is a simple indication, what Hindus are now thinking... It is   
>> Muslims who have to think now... they have created this world a   
>> land of havoc... Everywhere they are simply engaged in Killing....
>> They even kill each other, as in Iraq and now in Pakistan... And   
>> they are seriously killing Hindus like anything.... If this is   
>> again refuted... I can start quoting dates with killing counts in   
>> countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir...
>>
>> I don't know, what is in their head.... How do they get so easily   
>> terrorised... What do they get in believing that killign an   
>> Idolator is a work of God... It is stupid... and yet they all
>  are keeping this faith in their head....
>> they all are not engaged in killing, but they all are engaged in   
>> supporting this act...
>> Quran says, forgive the Idolators only if they accept Islam... and   
>> Quran says this right from second Surah to the last one...
>>
>> Why? Our religion don't teach about this variance at all... Geeta   
>> teaches howto unite, how to live with respective with each other,   
>> how to love, how to perform duty... Why can't you teach peace...
>>
>> Why can't you understand that Nature has created every creature (of  
>>  all species) unique and different.. Nature has produced variance  
>> so  that creatures can live with respect to each other... A specie  
>> is  not naturally allowed to kill the same specie.. except for  
>> humans..  where humans are killing humans...
>>
>> Let India live with its heritage of Hindutva... Thousands of years   
>> of killing and enforcement have failed to eliminate Hindus... Another
>  thousand will also fail... Because nature will keep the variance   
> alive... But the attempt of Islam and christianity would only   
> produce killing of innocent people...
>>
>> Hindus would kill muslims only during riots or war... But Muslim   
>> would kill always for religious reasons...
>> Please stop talking all these things..
>> Please talk peace...
>> Please talk how to proliferate the nation..
>> Please suggest how to remove the Quranic Islam and produce Indian Islam...
>> Please stop attacking Hindus, Modi and Army...
>> Please, please, please....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Zainab Bawa <bawazainab79 at gmail.com>
>> To: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>; sarai list   
>> <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 3:42:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
>>
>> Dear
>  Kshmendra and all your supporters and back slappers,
>>
>> You can easily pinpoint Oishik for his outburst of anger and frustration and
>> then state that because he (mis)directed his anger at Vedavati and company,
>> he has no right to talk about the abuse of Manipuri women at the hands of
>> the Indian state appointed soldiers there. How about for a moment
>> questioning Lady Chanchal and her remarks and for once again coming back to
>> the issue that Oishik has tried to raise - the rape of women at the hands of
>> state appointed army and the manifestations of the state's violence at
>> women?
>>
>> Chanchal diverted the topic by once again going back to her pet peeve of
>> Islam and Muslim and her hang ups of some frozen history that she loves to
>> imagine. I pointed out to her that it has nothing to do with Hindu-Muslim
>> populations and Hindu-Muslim army soldiers but a
>  larger question and concern
>> about women being direct targets of state violence (with that state violence
>> and injustice also being responsible for the rise of all kinds of other
>> movements to combat it). I then pointed to Chanchal how I have also been
>> eve-teased in Srinagar by soldiers. No, they did not come to ask me whether
>> I was Hindu or Muslim but made lewd remarks simply because I was woman and
>> bear breasts and bosom on my person. I also want to clarify that it not
>> about the soldiers themselves, but about the institutions and the systems
>> that get perpetrated within the structure of the conflict and occupation of
>> space. Chanchal immediately retorted saying that because I happen to be
>> "Muslim", I am likely to complain about being eve teased. *What kind of a
>> patriarchal and discriminatory remark is this?* This does not come to your
>> attention but Oishik's
>  suggestion of anal stimulation immediately strikes
>> you and you make claims about the mothers and sisters of the world. You
>> don't recognize that we have turned this into a battle of whose position is
>> right and backslapping. In our egostical positions and pride and victimized
>> states, as Gowhar and others have rightly pointed out, we fail to see who
>> suffers - children who are beaten by the army, women who are serially raped
>> and butchered, men whose psyches have been muted by the violences, families
>> that continue to suffer the losses of their loved ones, etc. and this is not
>> restricted to Kashmir, but to violence all over the world. But perhaps, you
>> would brush this aside by exclaiming that these are standard complaints of
>> Muslims. And then you cleverly subvert every issue, incidence and event to
>> Kashmir and to Muslims. Clever you!
>>
>> On this note, having
>  personally known Oishik, I vouch for him as a very
>> sincere, honest and well-meaning person. One remark of anger and frustration
>> does not define a person's overall political commitments and thoughts. And
>> this would apply to my not boxing either of you as good or bad people on the
>> basis of your positions.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Zainab
>>
>> *P.S. Any immediate retort/s to this email will be and ought to be
>> categorically ignored. *
>>
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2008 3:05 PM, <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Well said, with lal salaaam.
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
>> > Date: Sunday, January 20, 2008 2:48 pm
>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
>> > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> >
>>
>  > > Oishik
>> > >
>> > > 1. Thank you for the suggestion directed to me. It does not
>> > > interest me. I too have some suggestions for you.
>> > >
>> > > 2. You seem to be obsessed with what you have experienced and
>> > > suggested. You see a lot of merit in it.
>> > >
>> > > 3. Charitable soul that you are, you must have promoted it to
>> > > your circle of family and friends.
>> > >
>> > > 4. OISHIT, since there might be others of your kind who might
>> > > not find your suggestions/language obscene and crude, you must
>> > > convince them about it. You must provide references for them on
>> > > the efficacy of your suggestion.
>> > >
>> > > 5. So OISHIT, I presume we will get testimonials from your
>> > > mother, sisters (if any), daughters (if any) and
>  others to whom
>> > > you must have recommended the stimulation. They certainly would
>> > > have respected your suggestion. Maybe you even helped them in the
>> > > processes in the course of convincing them that your suggestion on
>> > > means to experience pleasure is not abuse. You must mention the
>> > > role played by you.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Kshmendra Kaul
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > OISHIK SIRCAR <oishiksircar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Kshmendra:
>> > >
>> > > That was not meant to be an abuse at all... it was meant to
>> > > suggest a means to experience anal stimulation that can be
>> > > orgasmic... I have tried it... so suggested that Vedavati do the
>> > > same... you could also do the same... actually all the HINDUS who
>> > >
>  are obsessing about nationalism on this listserv should do the
>> > > same... they'll realise that there are better and more enjoyable --
>> > > and of course more useful things in life to do than spew virulent
>> > > intolerance. Suggesting means to experience pleasure is not abuse,
>> > > I'm sure you'll agree.
>> > >
>> > > And I am overwhelmed with the kind of response my comments have
>> > > attracted -- that's the way to keep the Hindu bullshitters engaged
>> > > I can clearly see.
>> > >
>> > > If you find this mail to be crude and obscene as well -- I
>> > > would've made my point.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers...
>> > >
>> > > Oishik
>> > >
>> > > On Jan 19, 2008 3:16 AM, Kshmendra Kaul
>> > > <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > It is
>  ironic that Oishik Sircar of all people should bring to
>> > > the notice of "SARAI" the protest by the women of Manipur against
>> > > abuse directed at them.
>> > >
>> > > Oishik Sircar, just a few weeks back (on Dec 25, 2007 in SARAI)
>> > > was the one directing abuse towards a woman in the most crude and
>> > > obscene manner.
>> > >
>> > > Wonder what the Faculty of Law at University of Toronto would
>> > > have to say to/about this hypocritical "Scholar in Women's Rights"
>> > > (sic).
>> > >
>> > > Kshmendra Kaul
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------
>> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
>> > > Try it now.
>> > > _________________________________________
>>
>  > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > > subscribe in the subject header.
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>> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > OISHIK SIRCAR
>> > >
>> > > Scholar in Women's Rights
>> > > Faculty of Law, University of Toronto
>> > >
>> > > 60 Harbord Street
>> > > Room 016 B
>> > > Toronto, ON M5S 3L1
>> >
>  >
>> > > oishiksircar at gmail.com
>> > > oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca
>> > >
>> > > 416.876.7926
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------
>> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
>> > > Try it now.
>> > > _________________________________________
>> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
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>> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > > subscribe in the subject header.
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>> > > list
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>> > _________________________________________
>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
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>> >
>> _________________________________________
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>> Critiques & Collaborations
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>  the subject header.
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>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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