[Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
Krishna Chaithanya
tulunadu at hotmail.com
Tue Jan 22 16:43:25 IST 2008
When you have the environment to feel a nation , you'll not have the need for a nation.
If you hold the sword or gun on someones neck and force him to feel the nation,
one day he will feel your balls and squeez it
KC
> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:49:42 +0000
> From: A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk
> To: tulunadu at hotmail.com
> CC: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
>
> Quoting Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com>:
>
> With words, slogans and force you cant make people feel a
> nation.
>
>
>
> ............
> out of curiousity, how do you make people feel a nation?
>
> akshay
>
> >
> >
> > KC
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:29:00 -0800
> > From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> > To: tulunadu at hotmail.com
> > CC: reader-list at sarai.net
> >
> >
> >
> > I again say.. I do not hate them...
> > My language might be tough...
> >
> > But I want them to become Indian Muslim rather then Islamic Muslim...
> > I want them to join our slogan of 'Bharat mata ki Jai'.. which
> > Bukhari and the whole mulim community have rejected...
> > I want them to join a road show against terrorism..
> >
> > I never wanted them to tell me Quran... I never wanted them to kill
> > us when we are worshipping our dieties in temples in the name of
> > Idolators as said in Quran..
> > I want them to come out of those killing attitude and join the
> > loving attitude...
> >
> > But I am finding that Hindus are the first enemy of Hindus...
> > They have forgotten to live... They are already dead (this is what
> > Lord Krishna exactly meant in 11th chapter when he showed Arjuna
> > that they have already been killed)... and hence it is easy for
> > Islam or Christianity to easily do thousands of Conversion...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com>
> > To: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 11:42:49 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> >
> >
> >
> > Glad to know that the supreme being has chosen you to save the nation
> > Every religious fundamentalist believes that he is the chosen one
> > and his religion is the only path
> > May the god bless you
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:20:59 -0800
> > From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> > To: tulunadu at hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You are not to decide the right path...
> > You are not among ones who can save the nation...
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com>
> > To: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:43:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> >
> >
> >
> > You are the best human I've ever come across.
> > I can feel your energy,very vinrant, unfortunately it has not found
> > the right path
> >
> > God bless you
> >
> >
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:37:00 -0800
> > From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> > To: tulunadu at hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You first sacrifice your house to a Muslim..
> > And then we will think about Kashmir...
> > You are an Idiot... and an Anti-National... Absolutely no doubt..
> >
> > People like you will create many Kashmirs.. and get every Hindu killed...
> > It is better you convert...
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com>
> > To: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:37:51 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> >
> >
> > I'v no problem accepting Kashmir as a country, why not the Govt.
> > accept it? why should we sacrifice our soldiers there? How much
> > resources we have wasted on Kashmir all these years? how many people
> > we'v got killed?
> > Is there any meaning to it.
> >
> > Isn't it stupid- instead of holding what is with us tight, we
> > focused a lot on Kashmir and allowed the fire to spread to other
> > regions.
> >
> > KC
> >
> >
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:47:47 -0800
> > From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> > To: tulunadu at hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes.. I mean it...
> > Because Kashmir is virtually a country now..
> >
> > It is army of India that is still holding it..
> > And Muslims don't want that..
> >
> > This is the reason, you find so much of Muslims shouting on Army..
> >
> > This is the truth... Accept or Reject is your choice...
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Krishna Chaithanya <tulunadu at hotmail.com>
> > To: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:10:18 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> >
> >
> >
> > I can start quoting dates with killing
> > counts in countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir...
> > Correct yourself please...
> > You'v said countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and KASHMIR....!
> >
> >
> >> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:21:53 -0800
> >> From: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> >> To: bawazainab79 at gmail.com; kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> >>
> >> Don't mislead...
> >> The world knows that trucks of Women are exported by Pakistan to
> >> India (all HIV effected) for spreading AIDS in India... (I will get
> >> the Video uploaded on UTube on this, as this was shown by an
> >> external news channel)... and you say, women are raped in India..
> >>
> >> You do not require rape in your community... there is freedom of
> >> having more than one wife.. there is no freedom to women to report
> >> rapes... who will show what happens in your community...
> > The Quran says them all... and I have all senteces of Quran right
> > with me.... Believe me, all awaken Hindus are now reading Quran...
> > they all know what is there in that book...
> >> So, Muslims cannot fool the world any more that Quran teaches
> >> Peace... and Islam is a peaceful religion...
> >>
> >> Modi is a simple indication, what Hindus are now thinking... It is
> >> Muslims who have to think now... they have created this world a
> >> land of havoc... Everywhere they are simply engaged in Killing....
> >> They even kill each other, as in Iraq and now in Pakistan... And
> >> they are seriously killing Hindus like anything.... If this is
> >> again refuted... I can start quoting dates with killing counts in
> >> countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir...
> >>
> >> I don't know, what is in their head.... How do they get so easily
> >> terrorised... What do they get in believing that killign an
> >> Idolator is a work of God... It is stupid... and yet they all
> > are keeping this faith in their head....
> >> they all are not engaged in killing, but they all are engaged in
> >> supporting this act...
> >> Quran says, forgive the Idolators only if they accept Islam... and
> >> Quran says this right from second Surah to the last one...
> >>
> >> Why? Our religion don't teach about this variance at all... Geeta
> >> teaches how to unite, how to live with respective with each other,
> >> how to love, how to perform duty... Why can't you teach peace...
> >>
> >> Why can't you understand that Nature has created every creature (of
> >> all species) unique and different.. Nature has produced variance
> >> so that creatures can live with respect to each other... A specie
> >> is not naturally allowed to kill the same specie.. except for
> >> humans.. where humans are killing humans...
> >>
> >> Let India live with its heritage of Hindutva... Thousands of years
> >> of killing and enforcement have failed to eliminate Hindus... Another
> > thousand will also fail... Because nature will keep the variance
> > alive... But the attempt of Islam and christianity would only
> > produce killing of innocent people...
> >>
> >> Hindus would kill muslims only during riots or war... But Muslim
> >> would kill always for religious reasons...
> >> Please stop talking all these things..
> >> Please talk peace...
> >> Please talk how to proliferate the nation..
> >> Please suggest how to remove the Quranic Islam and produce Indian Islam...
> >> Please stop attacking Hindus, Modi and Army...
> >> Please, please, please....
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: Zainab Bawa <bawazainab79 at gmail.com>
> >> To: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>; sarai list
> >> <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 3:42:08 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> >>
> >> Dear
> > Kshmendra and all your supporters and back slappers,
> >>
> >> You can easily pinpoint Oishik for his outburst of anger and frustration and
> >> then state that because he (mis)directed his anger at Vedavati and company,
> >> he has no right to talk about the abuse of Manipuri women at the hands of
> >> the Indian state appointed soldiers there. How about for a moment
> >> questioning Lady Chanchal and her remarks and for once again coming back to
> >> the issue that Oishik has tried to raise - the rape of women at the hands of
> >> state appointed army and the manifestations of the state's violence at
> >> women?
> >>
> >> Chanchal diverted the topic by once again going back to her pet peeve of
> >> Islam and Muslim and her hang ups of some frozen history that she loves to
> >> imagine. I pointed out to her that it has nothing to do with Hindu-Muslim
> >> populations and Hindu-Muslim army soldiers but a
> > larger question and concern
> >> about women being direct targets of state violence (with that state violence
> >> and injustice also being responsible for the rise of all kinds of other
> >> movements to combat it). I then pointed to Chanchal how I have also been
> >> eve-teased in Srinagar by soldiers. No, they did not come to ask me whether
> >> I was Hindu or Muslim but made lewd remarks simply because I was woman and
> >> bear breasts and bosom on my person. I also want to clarify that it not
> >> about the soldiers themselves, but about the institutions and the systems
> >> that get perpetrated within the structure of the conflict and occupation of
> >> space. Chanchal immediately retorted saying that because I happen to be
> >> "Muslim", I am likely to complain about being eve teased. *What kind of a
> >> patriarchal and discriminatory remark is this?* This does not come to your
> >> attention but Oishik's
> > suggestion of anal stimulation immediately strikes
> >> you and you make claims about the mothers and sisters of the world. You
> >> don't recognize that we have turned this into a battle of whose position is
> >> right and backslapping. In our egostical positions and pride and victimized
> >> states, as Gowhar and others have rightly pointed out, we fail to see who
> >> suffers - children who are beaten by the army, women who are serially raped
> >> and butchered, men whose psyches have been muted by the violences, families
> >> that continue to suffer the losses of their loved ones, etc. and this is not
> >> restricted to Kashmir, but to violence all over the world. But perhaps, you
> >> would brush this aside by exclaiming that these are standard complaints of
> >> Muslims. And then you cleverly subvert every issue, incidence and event to
> >> Kashmir and to Muslims. Clever you!
> >>
> >> On this note, having
> > personally known Oishik, I vouch for him as a very
> >> sincere, honest and well-meaning person. One remark of anger and frustration
> >> does not define a person's overall political commitments and thoughts. And
> >> this would apply to my not boxing either of you as good or bad people on the
> >> basis of your positions.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Zainab
> >>
> >> *P.S. Any immediate retort/s to this email will be and ought to be
> >> categorically ignored. *
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 20, 2008 3:05 PM, <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Well said, with lal salaaam.
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> >> > Date: Sunday, January 20, 2008 2:48 pm
> >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Oishik Sircar & Abuse of Wome
> >> > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> >
> >>
> > > > Oishik
> >> > >
> >> > > 1. Thank you for the suggestion directed to me. It does not
> >> > > interest me. I too have some suggestions for you.
> >> > >
> >> > > 2. You seem to be obsessed with what you have experienced and
> >> > > suggested. You see a lot of merit in it.
> >> > >
> >> > > 3. Charitable soul that you are, you must have promoted it to
> >> > > your circle of family and friends.
> >> > >
> >> > > 4. OISHIT, since there might be others of your kind who might
> >> > > not find your suggestions/language obscene and crude, you must
> >> > > convince them about it. You must provide references for them on
> >> > > the efficacy of your suggestion.
> >> > >
> >> > > 5. So OISHIT, I presume we will get testimonials from your
> >> > > mother, sisters (if any), daughters (if any) and
> > others to whom
> >> > > you must have recommended the stimulation. They certainly would
> >> > > have respected your suggestion. Maybe you even helped them in the
> >> > > processes in the course of convincing them that your suggestion on
> >> > > means to experience pleasure is not abuse. You must mention the
> >> > > role played by you.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Kshmendra Kaul
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > OISHIK SIRCAR <oishiksircar at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > Kshmendra:
> >> > >
> >> > > That was not meant to be an abuse at all... it was meant to
> >> > > suggest a means to experience anal stimulation that can be
> >> > > orgasmic... I have tried it... so suggested that Vedavati do the
> >> > > same... you could also do the same... actually all the HINDUS who
> >> > >
> > are obsessing about nationalism on this listserv should do the
> >> > > same... they'll realise that there are better and more enjoyable --
> >> > > and of course more useful things in life to do than spew virulent
> >> > > intolerance. Suggesting means to experience pleasure is not abuse,
> >> > > I'm sure you'll agree.
> >> > >
> >> > > And I am overwhelmed with the kind of response my comments have
> >> > > attracted -- that's the way to keep the Hindu bullshitters engaged
> >> > > I can clearly see.
> >> > >
> >> > > If you find this mail to be crude and obscene as well -- I
> >> > > would've made my point.
> >> > >
> >> > > Cheers...
> >> > >
> >> > > Oishik
> >> > >
> >> > > On Jan 19, 2008 3:16 AM, Kshmendra Kaul
> >> > > <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > > It is
> > ironic that Oishik Sircar of all people should bring to
> >> > > the notice of "SARAI" the protest by the women of Manipur against
> >> > > abuse directed at them.
> >> > >
> >> > > Oishik Sircar, just a few weeks back (on Dec 25, 2007 in SARAI)
> >> > > was the one directing abuse towards a woman in the most crude and
> >> > > obscene manner.
> >> > >
> >> > > Wonder what the Faculty of Law at University of Toronto would
> >> > > have to say to/about this hypocritical "Scholar in Women's Rights"
> >> > > (sic).
> >> > >
> >> > > Kshmendra Kaul
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ---------------------------------
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> >> > > _________________________________________
> >>
> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> > > subscribe in the subject header.
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> >> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > OISHIK SIRCAR
> >> > >
> >> > > Scholar in Women's Rights
> >> > > Faculty of Law, University of Toronto
> >> > >
> >> > > 60 Harbord Street
> >> > > Room 016 B
> >> > > Toronto, ON M5S 3L1
> >> >
> > >
> >> > > oishiksircar at gmail.com
> >> > > oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca
> >> > >
> >> > > 416.876.7926
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ---------------------------------
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> >> > > _________________________________________
> >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> > > Critiques & Collaborations
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> >> > _________________________________________
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> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
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> >> >
> >> _________________________________________
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> >> Critiques & Collaborations
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> >>
> >>
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> --
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