[Reader-list] Kashmiri 'bandits' should .... return to their ancestral home - Washington declaration

Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् mail at shivamvij.com
Fri Jul 18 16:41:11 IST 2008 

Sonia, it is me who has been making the point on this list that the
Pandits are not a homogenous communuty. And the charge of
pre-concieved judgements, I humbly submit, applies just as much to the
position you are taking.

best
shivam

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 4:38 PM, S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
> And you are ignoring the fact that the community, though small, is not
> homogenous!
>
> Anyway Shivam, it seems you have made up your mind about why the Pandits
> have not returned long before you wrote your post, so let us just leave it
> at that.
>
> Best
> sj
>
>
> On 7/18/08 4:34 PM, "Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्" <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>
>> You and I - we are talking in individual terms, ignoring that the
> inerplay
>> between individuals and communities they are part of is not
> that
>> simplistic.
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 4:12 PM, S. Jabbar
>> <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well, then you and I are made of very
>> different stuff...Good luck!
>>
>> On 7/18/08 4:10 PM, "Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्"
>> <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That is a personal question directed only at
>> me. Yes, perhaps I
>> wouldn't,
>>> particularly if I am part of a community
>> that is
>> overwhelmingly not in favour
>>> of returning, and I would return
>> only
>> with a large group. And particularly if
>>> I am well settled in a job
>> in
>> Delhi.
>>
>> best
>> shivam
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at
>>> 4:08 PM, S.
>> Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ok, your take entirely,
>>> but you
>> still haven't answered my question, which is
>>> would you not return to
>>>
>> your home because you wanted to score a political
>>> point?
>>>
>>>
>>> On
>> 7/18/08
>>> 4:00 PM, "Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्" <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>> Dear
>>> Sonia,
>>>
>>> I don't think I was being either naive or
>>>>
>> offensive.
>>>
>>> best
>>>
>>> shivam
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:58 AM, S.
>> Jabbar
>>>>
>>> <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Shivam,
>>>>
>>>> I'm
>> surprised that it's
>>> you
>>>> asking this question.  It is both offensive
>> and
>>>> naïve to suggest
>>> that
>>>> Pandits are not returning because they
>> are holding on
>>>> to a sense
>>> of
>>>> victimhood to further political ends.
>> Though there are,
>>>>
>>> undoubtedly,
>>>> political formations that benefit
>> from the continuing
>>>>
>>> displacement of the
>>>> Pandits, including the
>> Government of India, it is
>>> wrong
>>>> to suggest that over
>>>> 200,000
>> people who have lost their homes,
>>> lands and
>>>> livelihood would prefer
>>>>
>> to stay in some dump in the plains
>>> because of
>>>> political gain.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Would you
>>>> think like that if it had
>>> happened to you?  I wouldn't.  If
>> it was
>>>> safe
>>>> enough for me to return, I
>>> would.  The way things are
>> at present no
>>>> Kashmiri
>>>> Pandit would risk
>>> moving back without
>> guarantees of safety to life
>>>> and limb.
>>>> Who will give
>>> them that, the
>> GoI that has been helpless when
>>>> massacres have
>>>> taken
>>> place?
>> Kashmiri Muslims, who themselves are at risk
>>>> from the
>>>> militant's
>>>
>> gun?
>>>>
>>>> Tragically, in the past, every time the GoI announced some
>>>>
>>>
>> package to
>>>> facilitate the return of the Pandits and the press made a
>>>
>> noise
>>>> about a few
>>>> families returning, there were massacres of the
>>>
>> Pandits that had
>>>> remained in
>>>> the valley: Wandhama, Telwani,
>> Sangrampora,
>>> and Nadimarg. The
>>>> killings were
>>>> brutal and they were
>> brutal because the
>>> killers wanted to send
>>>> out a message
>>>> in no
>> uncertain terms.  I doubt
>>> anyone in their right minds
>>>> would ignore
>>>>
>> that and put their loved ones
>>> at risk.
>>>>
>>>> The return of the
>>>>
>> Pandits would signal the end of militancy
>>> and a real
>>>> return to
>> normalcy.
>>>> Obviously there are groups that will
>>> oppose this unless
>>>>
>> it is part of a deal
>>>> between India and Pakistan on
>>> Kashmir.  Only with
>> a
>>>> formal end to the war, a
>>>> settlement of the Kashmir
>>> issue, with
>> the
>>>> declaration of various packages
>>>> for various groups, can
>>> the
>> Pandits actually
>>>> return.  Until then, of course
>>>> individuals are
>> free
>>> to come and go and
>>>> nobody is 'holding a gun to their
>>>> heads,'
>> but that is
>>> surely not the same
>>>> thing.
>>>>
>>>> Interestingly, there
>> are
>>>> many thousand
>>> Kashmiri Muslim  men stranded on the
>>>> other side
>> of the border
>>>> who left
>>> Kashmir in the early days of the movement
>>>>
>> and long to return to
>>>> Kashmir.
>>> They fear arrest and torture.  I met
>> some of
>>>> them when I was in
>>>>
>>> Pakistan.  They, too, dare not risk
>> returning until the
>>>> formal end of
>>> the
>>>> war.
>>>>
>>>> With so many
>> lives at stake-- those who have left, those
>>> whose lives
>>>> remain
>>>>
>> hellish in J&K, it is imperative that we keep
>>> pressuring the
>>>>
>> governments of
>>>> India & Pakistan to settle this issue.
>>> Sadly, the
>> momentum
>>>> has been lost
>>>> because of domestic compulsions in
>>> both
>> countries, and I don't
>>>> see things
>>>> getting resolved in a
>>>
>> hurry.
>>>>
>>>> -sj
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/17/08 6:42 PM,
>>>> "Shivam Vij शिवम्
>> विज्"
>>> <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> While a typo can be
>>>> ignored,
>> the
>>> question is worth asking: what
>>>>> prevents
>>>> pandits from
>> being
>>>>
>>> 'faciliated' to return? Militancy has declined,
>>>>> nobody
>> is
>>>> holding a
>>> gun
>>>> to Pandits' temples and quita  few happily
>>>>>
>> (especially
>>>>
>>> businessmen) are
>>>> spending six months in the Valley and
>> six in
>>>>> Delhi.
>>> But
>>>> many. Why has the
>>>> package of Rs. 16,000
>> crores been rejected? Do
>>>>>
>>> Pandits
>>>> even want to
>>>> reurn,
>> considering 70% have sold their land back
>>> home?
>>>>> And why
>>>> don't
>> they
>>>> want to return, considering they can buy
>>> land? Is it
>>>>>
>> political
>>>> reasons
>>>> rather than safety? Is is that many
>>> non-Jammu
>> migrants are
>>>>> well
>>>> settled
>>>> in Delhi, Pune, Bangalore, New
>>> York?
>> Is it that returning would
>>>>> mean
>>>>
>>>> giving up the political uses
>>>
>> of victimhood and let 'separatists' say,
>>>>>
>>>> "Look,
>>>> even the Pandits
>> are
>>> back." I am not making these allegations but
>>>>>
>>>> asking
>>>>
>> questions. Like
>>> all communities the Pandits are a divided
>>>>>
>>>>
>> community.
>>>> Kshmendra Kaul
>>> does not represent them all. Everyone has
>>>>
>> different
>>>>> reasons
>>>> and
>>> different circumstances.
>>>>
>>>> best
>>>>
>> shivam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On
>>>> 7/16/08,
>>> Kshmendra Kaul
>>>>>
>> <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A
>>>>
>>> "International Kashmir
>> Peace
>>>>> Conference" was held Washington D.C,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> 14th-15th July. It
>> adopted the
>>>>> "Washington Declaration".
>>>>>
>>>>> The
>>> website
>>>> of
>> "Association of Humanitarian
>>>>> Lawyers", one of the
>>> sponsors
>>>>> of
>> the
>>>> Conference, furnishes the text of the
>>>>>
>>> "Declaration"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> Point 8 in it
>>>> reads "The Conference calls for
>>> protection of
>>>>> all
>> minorities.
>>>>> All the
>>>> displaced persons including
>>> Kashmiri bandits
>> should
>>>>> be facilitated
>>>>> to
>>>> return to their ancestral
>>>
>> home."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://www.humanlaw.org/kashmirstatement.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> Did not know
>> that
>>>> "bandits"
>>>>> had been displaced out of Kashmir. At
>>> least
>>>>>
>> they are being
>>>> called
>>>>> 'displaced' and not 'migrants'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> KK
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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