[Reader-list] Kashmiri 'bandits' should .... return to their ancestral home - Washington declaration

Sat Jul 19 19:24:35 IST 2008

Dear Shivam

1. Your mail was not directed at me. It was not addressed to me. Next time you want me to respond, it would be better if you addressed me.

2. Even if you do address it me, it is not neccessary that I will respond to you. That should not surprise you of all the people. If you choose not to respond to people when they address you or ask questions off you, it should not surprise you if you are treated in the same manner.

3. You should also perhaps be patient in receiving a response, if one is coming at all. "Shivam asks" might be for you a snap of fingers expecting a speedy response. Might not mean much to others. On the contrary it might be a 'put off'. 

4. All else put aside, if I were to suspect the slightest sincerity in your asking 'that' set of questions, I might be more than willing to dialogue over them with you. They were transparently insincere and malicious. 

Sonia Jabbar was wrong in suggesting that you were being 'naive'. Sonia was right in calling your questions 'offensive'. I would have used the words 'crude' and 'insulting'

5. Sonia again called it right in telling you "...    it seems you have made up your mind about why the Pandits have not returned long before you wrote your post...."

6. If your questions were actually 'sincere' then for someone who commentates so regularly on Kashmir, your questions (especially in the manner they were framed) displayed a lack of in-depth understanding of Kashmir Affairs. Maybe you need to introspect after shedding preconcieved notions. 

7. Another factor you might want to look at could be your lack of credibility both as a journalist as well as of the person that you are which might dissuade someone (like me) from readily responding to you.  

The 'contents' and the 'bias' of your writings are only a part of that 'lack of credibility'. (Making a silly reference by connecting the Dharmarth Trust to KPs is a minor recent example. After it being pointed out, your not acknowledging your mistake only made it worse)

(Wish someone would teach me how SARAI archives can be easily searched)

Do you remember your shooting your mouth off and accusing one Abhishek Behl of plaigiarism? Do you remember it being pointed out to you that you were in error in your accusation because Behl had clearly stated that he was reproducing 'verbatim' a document issued by Campaign for Judicial Accountability and Judicial Reforms (CJAJR)? What you did not do is to express regrets for wrongfully accusing someone of plaigiarism or apologise to Behl in the same public space where you had so freely accused him.

That Shivam made questionable (for me) both your journalistic and personal ethics. It should not surprise you if you are not taken seriously.

8. What I found amusing is your agreeing with Sonia, when she confronted you, that the KPs are not a homogenous community.

 Actually you yourself had said as much (in different words) in your first ".. not making these allegations but asking questions" post. You had written " Like all communities the Pandits are a divided community. ........ Everyone has different reasons and different circumstances."

Shivam, if you know there is no homogenity then consider how incongruous your questions were in their generalisations and how offensive and malicious they were (in the manner in which they were framed with accusations contained therein). Consider Shivam what a sorry figure the smug arrogance in your questions cut, when in the same breath you stated "Everyone has different reasons and different circumstances." Hoisted on your own contradictions.

9. If your other meaningless dalliances of intellect (or lack of it) were not enough, you had to go ahead and top it all with your " Sometimes I wonder whether Kshmendra exists at all"

You poor pitiable confounded soul. Take your pick from either of the two possibilities as an answer:

- I write, therefore I am
- I am, therefore I write

Kshmendra

--- On Fri, 7/18/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:

From: Shivam Vij शिवम् <mail at shivamvij.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri 'bandits' should .... return to their ancestral home - Washington declaration
To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
Cc: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 3:59 PM

Dear Pawan,

Many thanks for your reply, although it was directed at Kshmendra, who
has surprisingly not replied so far. Sometimes I wonder whether
Kshmendra exists at all or if he is elusive like the solution to the
Kashmir dispute.

> Regarding the 16000 crore package , the finer things
> about the package is not known to many people and
> most of the media just caught up with the headlines.
> We may discuss the 16000 crore package sometime else.

The details have indeed come out:
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/full_story.asp?Date=26_4_2008&ItemID=51&cat=1

Your attempt to brush this away makes me wonder even more: now when
the government is paying to share substantial costs to return to the
Valley, now that militancy is at its lowest, why don't you return?
More details about how the package would be operationalised are
immaterial because various Pandit leaders have rejected the very idea
outright.

> When you quote that many Kashmiri hindu businessman spend 6
> months in Kashmir , i may not disagree that the few people do.
> I am sure you know the percentage of Kashmiri
> Hindu businessmen . Kindly share it with rest of the group.
> My idea is that it is less than 1%.

Well, I met some such and was told about them. But the point is that
if it is safe for some to live for six months, why is it unsafe for
others to live for twelve months? You can say that a certain district
is still unsafe, you arre afraid, but why can't those in Srinagar want
to return.

One point you haven't answered is: WHY WOULD SOMEONE WHO HAS SOLD HIS
PROPERTY RETURN? I am told that 7 in 10 migrants have sold their
properties and have thus given up their stake in the valley -
something that the Pandits who refused to migrate are pained about.
What are the reasons for selling property?

> where they are welcome as tourist
> but not as permanent residents

This is completely untrue. The local population is in fact guilty that
the Pandits were kicked out in the first place, and the 'separatists'
regret it even more because the Indian government used the plight of
the Pandits as a scoring point against the separatists.

(For the same reason not a single yatri was attacked, and in fact
Muslims held langars in Srinagar, during nine days of strike,
agitation and CRPF firing in the Valley. It was not so much an act of
charity but a politically calculated act of restraint.)

> Also once bitten is twice shy , and Kashmiri
> Hindus have been bitten more than 8 times in last 1000 years .

And the Pandits have been migrating for ages. In my city, Lucknow,
they have had a rich history, as also in Delhi. Not all Pandits are
refugees, and not all pandit refugees live / lived in camps - somehow
the discourse on pandits have stereotyped a hardworking, literate,
upwardly mobile community as refugees and  nothing else.

> This time the return has to be on terms of Kashmiri Hindus.
> And one of the term is a separate homeland with a
> full flow of Indian constitution.

Pandits did not leave Kashmir in protest of the J&K constitution. In
1989 Pandits did not say, "Extend Indian Constitution to Kashmir or
we'll leave." They left because of threats of violence and if the
threats of violence have been replaced by calls for return and
assurances of safety, why don't they return? And most refugees went to
nearby Jammu where the 'full flow' of the Indian Constitution applies
as much as it does in Sopore. There were also Pandits displaced within
the valley many of whom have accepted a rehabilitation package from
the J&K government.

Why should Pandits have a separate homeland? And if that is what they
want, why shouldn't Kashmir have independence from India? This seems
to be going in the logic of the Partition of India. The kashmir issue
is an unsettled sore thumb of the partition.

The Pandits were and are a part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir
which had independence for three months, which is the only state to
have its own flag, its own Constitution, rules debarring outsiders
from buying land. It has 28 vacant seats for PoK but this logic is not
extended to the Parliament of India. J&K has a UN observer mission, it
has an LoC rather than an international border - in short, even the
Constitution of India indirectly admits that kashmir is a disputed
territory.

Now you can demand a separate homeland for Pandits or demand whatever
whether you are living in Anantnag or Amsterdam. But, again: that is
not why you left Kashmir. You left because of killings and threats,
and now that they are no more, why don;t you return? And cosnidering
you have sold your land, do you even want to return? Would my dear
friend ARK leave Ramjas College and go to Kashmir University - or the
Vaishnu Devi university or the proposed Sharda Peeth for that matter?
If 2500 people who are still there and who never migrated, can live
there, why can't you?

And Kashmir has something stronger than the 'full flow' of the Indian
Constitution. It has the Indian army, BSF, CRPF at every nook and
corner.

best
shivam

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Dear Shivam ,
>
> I appreciate your curiosity.
>
> Regarding the 16000 crore package , the finer things about the package is
not known to many people and most of the media just caught up with the
headlines. We may discuss the 16000 crore package sometime else.
>
> When you quote that many Kashmiri hindu businessman spend 6 months in
Kashmir , i may not disagree that the few people do. I am sure you know the
percentage of Kashmiri Hindu businessmen . Kindly share it with rest of the
group. My idea is that it is less than 1%.So if less than 1% Kashmiri Hindus
visit Kashmir , where they are welcome as tourist but not as permanent
residents , that should not be a quoting figure for normalcy.
>
> Also once bitten is twice shy , and Kashmiri Hindus have been bitten more
than 8 times in last 1000 years . This time the return has to be on terms of
Kashmiri Hindus.And one of the term is a separate homeland with a full flow of
Indian constitution.
>
> For Kashmiri Hindus , the political reasons do not make any reason for
their non returning . They don't have a representative in assembly or the
national parliament. The reason has everything to what they had witnessed
sometimes back , which made them run away to save lives and honour.
>
> Regards
>
> Pawan Durani
>
>
> On 7/17/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
<mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>
>> While a typo can be ignored, the question is worth asking: what
prevents
>> pandits from being 'faciliated' to return? Militancy has
declined, nobody is
>> holding a gun to Pandits' temples and quita  few happily
(especially
>> businessmen) are spending six months in the Valley and six in Delhi.
But
>> many. Why has the package of Rs. 16,000 crores been rejected? Do
Pandits
>> even want to reurn, considering 70% have sold their land back home?
And why
>> don't they want to return, considering they can buy land? Is it
political
>> reasons rather than safety? Is is that many non-Jammu migrants are
well
>> settled in Delhi, Pune, Bangalore, New York? Is it that returning
would mean
>> giving up the political uses of victimhood and let
'separatists' say, "Look,
>> even the Pandits are back." I am not making these allegations but
asking
>> questions. Like all communities the Pandits are a divided community.
>> Kshmendra Kaul does not represent them all. Everyone has different
reasons
>> and different circumstances.
>>
>> best
>> shivam
>>
>>
>> On 7/16/08, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > A "International Kashmir Peace Conference" was held
Washington D.C,
>> > 14th-15th July. It adopted the "Washington
Declaration".
>> >
>> > The website of "Association of Humanitarian Lawyers",
one of the sponsors
>> > of the Conference, furnishes the text of the
"Declaration"
>> >
>> > Point 8 in it reads "The Conference calls for protection of
all minorities.
>> > All the displaced persons including Kashmiri bandits should be
facilitated
>> > to return to their ancestral home."
>> >
>> > http://www.humanlaw.org/kashmirstatement.html
>> >
>> > Did not know that "bandits" had been displaced out of
Kashmir. At least
>> > they are being called 'displaced' and not
'migrants'
>> >
>> > KK
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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