[Reader-list] About Accusations on this List

[Aarti Sethi]

Dear Pawan,

If you believe Shuddha is guilty of defamation, then please furnish evidence
of his statements, like he has done of yours. Name-calling, mud-slinging
etc, deplorable though it might be, is not defamation. Expressing your
opinion of someone's politics, ideaology, orientation etc is everyone's
right, including yours. And you cannot say that this right of yours has not
been respected. It has, beyond limits that would have been considered
acceptable in any other forum or space.

Asit is not defaming you. He is simply expressing his opinion of your
writing. As you have done several times in the past about anything I or
Inder or Shuddha or Shivam or several other people here, say or write.
Again, this is a question of a specific and dangerous allegation you have
made regarding people getting payment from other sources. So, do you have
any proof? If yes, then furnish it. If not, then you are guity of libel and
defamation. Unfortunately Pawan, it is as simple as that.

And if you believe similar charges have been made against you, then furnish
proof of that.

regards
Aarti

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Asit asitreds <asitredsalute at gmail.com>wrote:

> fascism at full play tomorrow they will ask us not to breathe back to
> mediaval barbarism
> asit
>
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> And why shouldnt be ASIT be thrown out of this group.
>>
>>
>> On 11/10/08, Asit asitreds <asitredsalute at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> making unsubstianted allegetions is cheap mudslinging specialised by the
>>> nazi party and goebbles that is how the hindu fascists spread roumers about
>>> religeous minorities and organise mediaval progroms rape mureder loot etc
>>> jingoistic slapstic natinalism leads to fascism a person who takes a
>>> shameless hindu fascist  line and not ashamed of himself should not be taken
>>> seriously one should not waste their time in arguing with mediaval communal
>>> fascists
>>> asit
>>>
>>>  On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Pawan,
>>>>
>>>> Please enlighten us regarding what I or Shuddha have accused you off?
>>>> Please
>>>> include, as Shuddha has done, quotes from what I have written, the date
>>>> and
>>>> time. Note, this is not a question of calling someone names or referring
>>>> to
>>>> their ideaological/political beliefs. Because I am sure I have used
>>>> strong
>>>> language, as have you. I do not need to *prove* that you support
>>>> right-wing
>>>> Hindu fascists, that is evident from your writing. As you do not need to
>>>> *prove* that I, according to you, support "Islamic terrorists".
>>>> According to
>>>> you, what I write reflects that. I can contest your reading of what I
>>>> write,
>>>> as you can contest my charecterisation of you, but neither of us has
>>>> recourse to *facts* in this case.
>>>>
>>>> This is a question of you explicitly saying that we are *paid* for our
>>>> writings and views by someone else. Saying that takes it into a whole
>>>> new
>>>> terrain where to make such a charge you need to prove it. This is not a
>>>> matter of opinion, yours or mine. And I can say with utter confidence
>>>> that,
>>>> unlike you who thinks nothing of hurling unsubstantiated charges against
>>>> people, I am far more circumspect about what I write.
>>>>
>>>> So please, tell me where I have said this about you.
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>> Aarti
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com
>>>> >wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Dear All,
>>>> >
>>>> > For those who have championed "how we celebrate Freedom,remain
>>>> exposed. The
>>>> > freedom of others to express their thoughts.
>>>> >
>>>> > How come Shuddha forgets how he has himsef accused others like me ,
>>>> Aditya
>>>> > ,
>>>> > roots in Kashmir , Panun Kashmir , BJP and RSS etc etc.
>>>> >
>>>> > His talk on Kashmir , accusations against Roots in Kashmir are nothing
>>>> but
>>>> > figment of his own imagination.
>>>> >
>>>> > If I have to be removed from the list , so would Shuddha , Inder ,
>>>> Shivam
>>>> > and Arti have to be.
>>>> >
>>>> > Let the Moderators remove all , if that is what is required.
>>>> >
>>>> > Pawan
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On 11/9/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >  Dear All,
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I have noticed a curious and remarkable phenomenon of late on our
>>>> list,
>>>> > and
>>>> > > am wondering whether or not any of you have noticed it too.
>>>> Unfortunately
>>>> > it
>>>> > > is not without precedent.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > We know well by now that when those who speak for 'Panun Kashmir'
>>>> and
>>>> > > 'Roots in Kashmir' run out of arguments, especially when faced with
>>>> > detailed
>>>> > > and cross referenced material that does not support their 'case',
>>>> > habitually
>>>> > > retort with abuse, invective and insinuation. They express their
>>>> desires
>>>> > to
>>>> > > 'spit' on people's faces, exactly as their ABVP / Sri Ram Sena  goon
>>>> > allies
>>>> > > spit on the faces of university lecturers invited to speak at the
>>>> > > university.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Of late, there has been another kind of 'spitting' going on in this
>>>> list,
>>>> > > and in the online communications emanating from individuals
>>>> associated
>>>> > with
>>>> > > 'Panun Kashmir' and 'Roots in Kashmir'.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >  I am speaking about a curious pattern of a specific kind of
>>>> insinuations
>>>> > > emanating mainly from Pawan Durani (but also of late from Aditya Raj
>>>> > Kaul)
>>>> > > that suggest that whosoever does not agree with the PK/RIK gospel or
>>>> the
>>>> > > broad hardline Indian nationalist position on anything must be doing
>>>> so
>>>> > > because they are actively doing the bidding of their 'foreign
>>>> masters'
>>>> > and
>>>> > > further, because they are being 'paid' to do so. Since their ethical
>>>> > > horizons are severely limited and compromised, the makers of these
>>>> > > accusations cannot imagine that some of us take a principled
>>>> position
>>>> > > against the things that they hold sacrosant. And so, failing to
>>>> account
>>>> > for
>>>> > > the ethical basis of our opposition, they leap to accuse us of being
>>>> > > adversarial purely for the sake of private and pecuniary gain. So,
>>>> > 'writers'
>>>> > > and journalists are paid by their terrorist masters, I am a paid
>>>> agent,
>>>> > > Sanjay Kak was paid by Yasin Malik (this is a charge that was made
>>>> when
>>>> > the
>>>> > > debate on Jashn-e-Azadi began) and Prakash Ray is 'Sanjay Kak's
>>>> > propoganda
>>>> > > agent on the payroll of Yasin Malik' , and so on.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > This allegation that ones critics are ones critics because they are
>>>> being
>>>> > > paid to be critics and that too by devious foreign powers or their
>>>> local
>>>> > > clients is the time tested 'foreign hand' and 'agent of the foreign
>>>> hand'
>>>> > > theory that is the Brahmastra (secret lethal weapon) that Indian
>>>> > politicians
>>>> > > (and not only Indian politicians) resort to when all else fails. It
>>>> is
>>>> > the
>>>> > > true hallmark of a failure of reason, a profound disconnect with
>>>> reality
>>>> > and
>>>> > > dismal poverty of the political imagination. It attempts to hide but
>>>> > fails
>>>> > > to conceal a rancid, rabid, raucous politics.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Of course, as is evident from the emails forwarded by Sonia Jabbar
>>>> on to
>>>> > > the list recently, some of the illustrious company that Mr. Durani
>>>> keeps,
>>>> > > such as the gentleman known as Ashish Zutshi, another 'Roots in
>>>> Kashmir'
>>>> > > luminary, himself offered her a 'reasonable sum of money' to write
>>>> for
>>>> > their
>>>> > > cause. Perhaps the sleazy language of bribery is the only one that
>>>> these
>>>> > > gentlemen understand, because at least in this case, they seem to be
>>>> > doing
>>>> > > precisely what (offering a bribe) that they accuse us of being
>>>> beholden
>>>> > to.
>>>> > > Rather, this is a case of one kind of influence peddlers admitting
>>>> to the
>>>> > > fact that they lament not having their current adversaries as their
>>>> own
>>>> > > 'paid agents'. Why else would they offer to pay someone who doesn't
>>>> agree
>>>> > > with them a 'reasonable amount' to change her mind.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In the last two weeks there have been several specific occasions
>>>> when
>>>> > > either I, or someone broadly willing to question the PK/RIK hard
>>>> line
>>>> > > nationalist gospel has been called a paid 'agent'. Further, Aarti
>>>> has
>>>> > been
>>>> > > accused of selling herself 'cheaply' and Sanjay Kak has been accused
>>>> of
>>>> > > taking money from Yasin Malik. And there have also been two specific
>>>> > > occasions when people (Aman and me, by implication) have been called
>>>> > > 'puppets of the Chinese'.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Now this is something that I take quite seriously. I do not take
>>>> this
>>>> > > casually, as I do not think that these accusations are made casually
>>>> > > either.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The allegations suggest, basically, that some of us are writing what
>>>> we
>>>> > are
>>>> > > writing on this list because some 'foreign power'  or 'terrorist' is
>>>> > > greasing our palms. Since I am included in this list, I am willing
>>>> to
>>>> > take
>>>> > > on this matter personally. Notwithstanding the fact that my bank
>>>> accounts
>>>> > > suggest otherwise, I am insulted to know that Pawan Durani should
>>>> think
>>>> > that
>>>> > > my political convictions and reflections are available for purchase
>>>> at
>>>> > such
>>>> > > low rates in the market, or, more fundamentally, that I am a hired
>>>> hack
>>>> > who
>>>> > > writes not out of conviction but  for the sake of crumbs and
>>>> leavings
>>>> > from
>>>> > > my 'masters' table. The Reader List is a space of freedom. No one is
>>>> paid
>>>> > by
>>>> > > the hosts  or the administrator of the list to write anything. No
>>>> > payments
>>>> > > are sought from the hosts or administrator for any kind of writing
>>>> > either.
>>>> > > My professional responsibilities at Sarai do not include writing on
>>>> the
>>>> > > Reader List either.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I consider this an insult to the community of the reader list, to
>>>> the
>>>> > Sarai
>>>> > > programme at CSDS and a serious affront to my reputation and my
>>>> > professional
>>>> > > standing. I do not wish to ignore this or take it lightly,
>>>> especially as
>>>> > > this has been made on a very public forum. I may have been willing
>>>> to
>>>> > ignore
>>>> > > the odd barb of this nature (and it is not that it has not been
>>>> thrown in
>>>> > > the past) but when we get seven defamatory missives in two weeks,
>>>> then we
>>>> > > are looking at a serious and determined pattern that I do not think
>>>> > deserves
>>>> > > to be ignored or overlooked.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Let's look at each one of these instances. I have tagged each quote
>>>> with
>>>> > > the subject header and the date of the posting from which it is
>>>> taken, so
>>>> > > that they can be traced easily by all list members. My comments
>>>> follow
>>>> > each
>>>> > > quotation. Certain portions within each quotation have been
>>>> capitalized
>>>> > for
>>>> > > reasons of emphasis (mine).
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --------------------------
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 1.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Date: 21 October 2008 6:21:56 PM GMT+05:30
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (from Pawan Durani)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > "...Notwithsatnding a well CALCULATED EFFORT BACKED BY A FOREIGN
>>>> COUNTRY
>>>> > ,
>>>> > > so called intellectuals and so called jornalists who created a
>>>> > > disinformation campaign, such as in Jamia Encounter , Parlaiment
>>>> case are
>>>> > > being followed more closely.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Number of people are supposed to be under close scanner and their
>>>> links
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ascertained. Hoping the truth and the DETAILS PAYOUTS will come out
>>>> > > soon..."
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > MY COMMENT: Pawan Durani claims to know the following -
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (a) that those raising questions about the Jamia Encounter and the
>>>> > > Parliament Attack case are party to a 'well calculated effort backed
>>>> by a
>>>> > > foreign country'
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (b) that they are 'under a close scanner', their 'links are being
>>>> > > ascertained'
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (c) that the 'details' of 'payouts' will come out soon...
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In all fairness, either he should furnish the list with details of
>>>> how he
>>>> > > can substantiate (a - which foreign country?), (b) & (c) above, or
>>>> stand
>>>> > > charged of making baseless allegations designed to malign the
>>>> character
>>>> > and
>>>> > > reputation of people in a public forum.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In the event that he cannot prove (a), (b) & (c) I would like to
>>>> know
>>>> > > whether or not list members believe that this alone ought not to
>>>> count as
>>>> > > sufficient reason for his expulsion from the list ?
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 2.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Date: 25 October 2008 3:53:21 PM GMT+05:30
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (from Pawan Durani)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > "...I know I am not a master of mixing words NOR IS THIS A FULL TIME
>>>> JOB
>>>> > > FOR ME  FOR WHICH I GET PAID FOR..." (sic)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > MY COMMENT: This is specifically addressed to me. Since I am neither
>>>> > > employed nor monetarily compensated to write posts on the Reader
>>>> List on
>>>> > any
>>>> > > subject whatsoever, and do so entierly of my own free will, I want
>>>> to
>>>> > know
>>>> > > what Pawan Durani means when he implies that writing on the Reader
>>>> List
>>>> > is a
>>>> > > 'full time job for which I get paid'. Again, if he cannot
>>>> substantiate
>>>> > this,
>>>> > > it will amount to defamation because it will imply that I say what I
>>>> do,
>>>> > or
>>>> > > have the political convictions that I have because I am paid for
>>>> this. In
>>>> > > other words, that I am a 'mercenary'. If he cannot substantiate this
>>>> > charge,
>>>> > > I would again like to ask whether he should be expelled from this
>>>> list,
>>>> > or
>>>> > > allowed to continue to make allegations without basis?
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 3.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal Displacement
>>>> from
>>>> > > Kashmir
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Date: 1 November 2008 2:11:09 PM GMT+05:30
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (from Pawan Durani)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > "...Mind it , we are fighting for ourselves and IT IS A UNPAID JOB,
>>>> > UNLIKE
>>>> > > SOME SURROGATES WHO ACT PROXY for secessionists in Kashmir and
>>>> support
>>>> > their
>>>> > >
>>>> > > cause by trying to create an opinion..."
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > MY COMMENT: If what he is doing is an 'unpaid job' it implies, from
>>>> > reading
>>>> > > this and the previous quote, that I am doing a 'paid job' (again
>>>> because
>>>> > > this is addressed to me). Once again, the questions I have asked
>>>> > immediately
>>>> > > before this still hold.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 4.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal Displacement
>>>> from
>>>> > > Kashmir
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Date: 1 November 2008 5:17:49 PM GMT+05:30
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (from Pawan Durani)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > "...I dont have time like Shuddha for writing such a long mail, and
>>>> also
>>>> > IT
>>>> > > IS NOT MY PAID JOB."
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > MY COMMENT: Implication - it is Shuddha's "paid job" to write in the
>>>> way
>>>> > he
>>>> > > does. See my previous two comments above. Same question holds
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 5.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Re: [Reader-list] Thinking Through Figures on Internal Displacement
>>>> from
>>>> > > Kashmir
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Date: 2 November 2008 12:37:24 PM GMT+05:30
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (from Pawan Durani)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > "We dont need him or his lip service. LET HIM SERVE HIS MASTERS and
>>>> we
>>>> > > would continue to counter their agenda..."
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > MY COMMENT: So providing a detailed set of arguments amounts to me
>>>> > > "serving" my "masters". Who are these "masters"? Does Durani have a
>>>> list
>>>> > of
>>>> > > my "masters" or  any proof for the allegation that he is making here
>>>> that
>>>> > I
>>>> > > write on the list at the bidding of "masters"? If he does not have
>>>> this
>>>> > > proof, then again, I am constrained to ask whether or not he should
>>>> be
>>>> > > expelled from the list for reasons of defamation.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 6.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Pandits demand 'internally displaced
>>>> persons'
>>>> > > status
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Date: 3 November 2008 1:33:03 PM GMT+05:30
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (from Pawan Durani)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > "...At least WE ARE NOT PUPPETS OF CHINESE IDEOLOGY. You know what I
>>>> > mean."
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > MY COMMENT: The implication here is that those who do not agree with
>>>> > > Pawan's position are the puppets of "Chinese ideology"? What does
>>>> > "Chinese
>>>> > > ideology" mean? Does it mean, Confucianism, Taoism, Maoism,
>>>> Kuomintang
>>>> > > Thought, Dengism, Falun Gong tendencies or an unnatural preference
>>>> for
>>>> > > Chinese cuisine?
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I take it (though, who knows, I could be wrong)  that Pawan is
>>>> referring
>>>> > to
>>>> > > a willingness to act at the behest of 'Chinese' masters,
>>>> specifically
>>>> > those
>>>> > > in positions of power within the Chinese Communist Party and the
>>>> > government
>>>> > > of the Peoples Republic of China.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If so, how would he explain the fact that several of the people he
>>>> would
>>>> > > identify as his adversaries (me, for instance) have been vocal
>>>> critics of
>>>> > > Maoism (all varieties), the Chinese Communist Party and the
>>>> government of
>>>> > > the Peoples Republic of China on this list. We have in fact gone on
>>>> > record
>>>> > > to point out the similarities between the way in which the
>>>> government of
>>>> > > mainland China deals with Tibet, and the way in which the Government
>>>> of
>>>> > > India deals with the occupation that it undertakes in Kashmir.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In the light of this fact, the above allegation is rendered
>>>> baseless.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 7.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Re: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Pandits demand 'internally displaced
>>>> persons'
>>>> > > status
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 3 November 2008 1:42:34 PM GMT+05:30
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (from Aditya Raj Kaul)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > "It has become so usual now to SEE THESE PUPPETS SPEAK THEIR MASTERS
>>>> > > TONE..."
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > MY COMMENT: Here, Aditya Raj Kaul echoes Pawan Durani's insinuation
>>>> that
>>>> > > anyone who questions them (him and Durani) are "puppets" who act at
>>>> the
>>>> > > behest of their masters.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > -----------------
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >  Re: [Reader-list] SIMI Activists found with SAR Geelani CDs
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 9 November 2008 14:14:12 IST 2008
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (from Aditya Raj Kaul)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > "dear SANJAY KAK'S PROPOGANDA AGENT ON PAYROLLS OF YASIN MALIK
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > MY COMMENT: None
>>>> > >
>>>> > > __________________________
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I am giving Pawan Durani and Aditya Raj Kaul exactly one day (from
>>>> the
>>>> > date
>>>> > > and time of this posting) to furnish detailed, substantiatable proof
>>>> for
>>>> > > what I consider to be the allegations in their defamatory and
>>>> scurrilous
>>>> > > postings aimed at me and others on this list.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If they are not able to furnish these proofs within this one day.
>>>> Or, if
>>>> > > the proofs they furnish are found to be insubstantial, motivated and
>>>> > > inadequate to the charges that they make, then I would request  the
>>>> list
>>>> > > administrator that both of them be expelled from this list with
>>>> immediate
>>>> > > effect.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Let me clarify one thing in closing. I am and have always been in
>>>> favour
>>>> > of
>>>> > > freedom of expression. And I have defended (over the last year and a
>>>> > half)
>>>> > > the right of Pawan Durani and Aditya Raj Kaul and their allies (in
>>>> > serious
>>>> > > offline discussions) to continue to torment this list with their
>>>> rubbish
>>>> > > time and time again when demands have been made for his expulsion on
>>>> > grounds
>>>> > > of 'hate speech'. I am willing to go the extra mile to give the
>>>> benefit
>>>> > of
>>>> > > the doubt when someone stands accused of 'hate speech' especially
>>>> when I
>>>> > do
>>>> > > not agree with them, because I think that even things said in anger
>>>> need
>>>> > a
>>>> > > hearing. And I have gone that extra mile with Pawan Durani, Aditya
>>>> Raj
>>>> > Kaul
>>>> > > and their allies.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > But defamation and libel are offenses, not opinions. The harm that
>>>> they
>>>> > can
>>>> > > do is objectively verifiable, not a matter of speculation or
>>>> conjecture.
>>>> > > Opinions, no matter how vile they may be can be countered by
>>>> arguments
>>>> > and
>>>> > > better formulated opinions. But the lies that attack peoples
>>>> personal
>>>> > lives
>>>> > > and conduct, especially when they are uttered on public fora, spread
>>>> > poison
>>>> > > if they are not dealt with exemplary and immediate severity. There
>>>> have
>>>> > to
>>>> > > be consequences for such conduct, no matter who does it.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If someone says that I am paid to speak in the way that I do by a
>>>> foreign
>>>> > > power, then there is no ambiguity in this statement. EIther I am, or
>>>> I am
>>>> > > not. I know I am not. The mails that I am referring to above
>>>> suggests
>>>> > that I
>>>> > > am, and several others on the list are. And since this is a
>>>> statement
>>>> > about
>>>> > > concrete people, not about some abstractions . then the only way to
>>>> > settle
>>>> > > this is to demand that the person or persons making the allegation
>>>> proves
>>>> > > what they say, or faces the consequences of bearing false witness.
>>>> The
>>>> > > reason I am saying this is because there actually are very serious
>>>> > > consequences to being thought of as a 'paid' agent of a 'foreign
>>>> power'
>>>> > in
>>>> > > this country, at a time like what we are going through, today. Such
>>>> > > accusations and labels cannot and must not be taken lightly.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Either he is lying, or I am. And an untruth about a person is libel
>>>> and
>>>> > > cannot by any stretch of imagination be subject to protection on the
>>>> > grounds
>>>> > > of freedom of expression. This forum would be betraying itself and
>>>> the
>>>> > > reasons why it was founded if it confuses the license to defame a
>>>> person
>>>> > or
>>>> > > persons with the freedom of expression.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I hope I have made myself abundantly clear. I have nothing to
>>>> conceal.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > regards
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Shuddha
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > _________________________________________
>>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>>> > subscribe in the subject header.
>>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>>> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>> >
>>>> _________________________________________
>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>>> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>