[Reader-list] About Accusations on this List

[Aarti Sethi]

nothing wrong with the exchange of saliva now and then...

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Kirdar <kirdarsingh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Gargi Sen and others
> While I appreciate the fact that these "confrontations" have led to a
> lot of fruitful discussions and articulations, one also has to weigh
> the cost involved - the time, the effort, the stressful nights - to
> counter the allegations, find references, and so on. Compared to
> ordinary situations in day to-day life, such commitment of time and
> effort could have led to something even more fruitful. And besides,
> the benefit of these articulations seem mostly one-sided - those who
> are addressed these articulations do not have the time or patience to
> read them and get wiser. Maybe, some people have shown change, but
> internet is the last place to read anybody's real intent. I wish all
> these confrontations were happening in real life, face-to-face (of
> course without the exchange of saliva), it would be more fun. We'd get
> to know each other better. Most of the vital communication actually
> gets lost on the internet. I am sure one day of a real conference
> between the active members of Sarai would have been better than 1 and
> half years of ugly confrontations. Why doesn't Sarai think of inviting
> some of these people over and have a real meeting to discuss. Just an
> idea.
>
> Kirdar
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Dear Gargi,
> >
> > Lal Salaam ,
> >
> > Thank you for the note. Its been a long time since you have written last
> on
> > this list. I have some very brief comments
> >
> > 1. Have you read Rashneek's write up on iconoclasm , he wrote it becuase
> > Shuddha interpretation was wrong.
> >
> > 2. Kshmendra treading a middle path pleases you , howver do you justify
> that
> > all those on "other" or may i dare to say on the 'left' side are right.
> >
> > 3. It's not foor the first time Shuddha has tried to get me removed.
> Infact
> > in january he tried the same and later apologised.It is on record.
> >
> > 4. I am not in a position to send a well researched mail , for that I
> would
> > have to spend a lot of time. Unfortunately , i dont have as much time
> these
> > days.And even if one does write , people like Shuddha wont accept . Has
> he
> > accepted Rashneek's view till date ? It's difficult to paint white over
> red.
> >
> > 5. My love for Andhra or Maharshtra has nothing to do with Agression. I
> > respect and love the state where i earn my bread and butter. And everyone
> > else should. Not like those Kashmiris who do otherwise.
> >
> > 6. You find my tone masculine , is something i cant help. I have studied
> in
> > a school where the Motto is "In all Things be men" . Thatz the oldest
> school
> > in Kashmir called Tyandale Biscoe memorial High School. Among other
> alumni
> > from the school are Dr Farooq Abdullah and Ashfaq Majid Wani . Farooq you
> > must be knowing , and Ashfaq Majid was one of the core member of HAJY
> gang
> > of JKLF.
> >
> > 7. I thank you for you opposing our removal , though Shuddha tries very
> hard
> > to act like  Musharraf to get his will imposed.
> >
> > 8. As long as support for our tormentors is generated on this list , we
> > would fight back.
> >
> > 9. There is a silent majority , apart from the ones carrying the red
> flag.
> > There is a Raja for every Yousaf , Dhatri for every Prakash Ray and Pawan
> > for every Shuddha.
> >
> > God Bless
> >
> > Pawan Durani
> > Jai Andhra - jai Hindusthan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/11/08, Gargi Sen <sen.gargi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Shuddha, dear all,
> >> I am a general lurker on this list and the list is an important space
> for
> >> me, and I think for many like me, habitual lurkers. Its a space that has
> >> helped to initiate and carry out many important but difficult dialogues.
> It
> >> has produced some very fine erudition. While there are many favourites
> but
> >> my personal choice would be Shuddha your annotation to the history of
> >> iconoclasm in Kashmir and a reading of Kalhana in four parts. Huge but
> >> riveting.
> >> And many such fine pieces have been on the list ­ I can name many whose
> >> writing and deliberations have made me think, pause, reflect, rethink...
> >>
> >> But the main strength of this list I dare say  has been its maturity to
> >> deal
> >> positions that believe repeating lies and half baked opinions endlessly
> >> will
> >> turn desires into truths .
> >> They are a dreary part of this list but probably have played a part in
> >> provoking some of the greatest responses. So while I have looked with
> dread
> >> at the most common names that appear most often on this list, I have
> been
> >> very impressed with the responses to them. The recent exchange between
> >> Inder
> >> Salim and Aditya Raj kaul on caste is a case. I wonder if Inder Salim
> would
> >> have felt compelled to articulate in this manner and forum if it wasn¹t
> for
> >> Aditya? Or would you Shuddha write at such length if it wasn¹t for
> >> Rashneek?
> >> I also saw that a sustained dialogue can help people shift positions. I
> see
> >> Khemendra Kaul who is at least willing to listen and talk.
> >> And I believe that such a shift is possible because of the quality of
> >> dialogue, and a freedom to express, on the Sarai list.
> >>
> >> So despite Aditya Raj Kaul¹s viciousness where he has graduated from
> >> threatening to spit to slap, and his immature but dangerous worldview or
> >> Pawan Durani¹s aggression and shifting celebration from Maharashtra to
> >> Andhra, and the utter tedium of their arguments that lack the basic
> tenets
> >> of an argument, or their ignorance, or their silly, hostile, masculine,
> >> grandiose and empty posturing I believe they should be allowed to
> continue.
> >> This is as much for freedom of expression as much for the hope that deep
> >> inside they are just immature and don¹t really mean what they write.
> >>
> >> As for the specific charges of being *paid* that they made against you
> >> Shuddha, I think everyone, at least those who have the energy, should
> >> continue to ask them for proof :-) Rather than expel them. Otherwise I
> am
> >> afraid that it could seem like the Sarai list is *punishing* them for
> >> errant
> >> behaviour whereas the allegations they make are far more serious, and
> have
> >> far graver implications than such punitive measures can correct.
> >>
> >> Gargi Sen
> >>
> >> _________________________________________
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> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
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> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
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>