[Reader-list] About Accusations on this List

[Kirdar]

Dear Gargi Sen and others
While I appreciate the fact that these "confrontations" have led to a
lot of fruitful discussions and articulations, one also has to weigh
the cost involved - the time, the effort, the stressful nights - to
counter the allegations, find references, and so on. Compared to
ordinary situations in day to-day life, such commitment of time and
effort could have led to something even more fruitful. And besides,
the benefit of these articulations seem mostly one-sided - those who
are addressed these articulations do not have the time or patience to
read them and get wiser. Maybe, some people have shown change, but
internet is the last place to read anybody's real intent. I wish all
these confrontations were happening in real life, face-to-face (of
course without the exchange of saliva), it would be more fun. We'd get
to know each other better. Most of the vital communication actually
gets lost on the internet. I am sure one day of a real conference
between the active members of Sarai would have been better than 1 and
half years of ugly confrontations. Why doesn't Sarai think of inviting
some of these people over and have a real meeting to discuss. Just an
idea.

Kirdar


On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Gargi,
>
> Lal Salaam ,
>
> Thank you for the note. Its been a long time since you have written last on
> this list. I have some very brief comments
>
> 1. Have you read Rashneek's write up on iconoclasm , he wrote it becuase
> Shuddha interpretation was wrong.
>
> 2. Kshmendra treading a middle path pleases you , howver do you justify that
> all those on "other" or may i dare to say on the 'left' side are right.
>
> 3. It's not foor the first time Shuddha has tried to get me removed. Infact
> in january he tried the same and later apologised.It is on record.
>
> 4. I am not in a position to send a well researched mail , for that I would
> have to spend a lot of time. Unfortunately , i dont have as much time these
> days.And even if one does write , people like Shuddha wont accept . Has he
> accepted Rashneek's view till date ? It's difficult to paint white over red.
>
> 5. My love for Andhra or Maharshtra has nothing to do with Agression. I
> respect and love the state where i earn my bread and butter. And everyone
> else should. Not like those Kashmiris who do otherwise.
>
> 6. You find my tone masculine , is something i cant help. I have studied in
> a school where the Motto is "In all Things be men" . Thatz the oldest school
> in Kashmir called Tyandale Biscoe memorial High School. Among other alumni
> from the school are Dr Farooq Abdullah and Ashfaq Majid Wani . Farooq you
> must be knowing , and Ashfaq Majid was one of the core member of HAJY gang
> of JKLF.
>
> 7. I thank you for you opposing our removal , though Shuddha tries very hard
> to act like  Musharraf to get his will imposed.
>
> 8. As long as support for our tormentors is generated on this list , we
> would fight back.
>
> 9. There is a silent majority , apart from the ones carrying the red flag.
> There is a Raja for every Yousaf , Dhatri for every Prakash Ray and Pawan
> for every Shuddha.
>
> God Bless
>
> Pawan Durani
> Jai Andhra - jai Hindusthan
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/11/08, Gargi Sen <sen.gargi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Shuddha, dear all,
>> I am a general lurker on this list and the list is an important space for
>> me, and I think for many like me, habitual lurkers. Its a space that has
>> helped to initiate and carry out many important but difficult dialogues. It
>> has produced some very fine erudition. While there are many favourites but
>> my personal choice would be Shuddha your annotation to the history of
>> iconoclasm in Kashmir and a reading of Kalhana in four parts. Huge but
>> riveting.
>> And many such fine pieces have been on the list ­ I can name many whose
>> writing and deliberations have made me think, pause, reflect, rethink...
>>
>> But the main strength of this list I dare say  has been its maturity to
>> deal
>> positions that believe repeating lies and half baked opinions endlessly
>> will
>> turn desires into truths .
>> They are a dreary part of this list but probably have played a part in
>> provoking some of the greatest responses. So while I have looked with dread
>> at the most common names that appear most often on this list, I have been
>> very impressed with the responses to them. The recent exchange between
>> Inder
>> Salim and Aditya Raj kaul on caste is a case. I wonder if Inder Salim would
>> have felt compelled to articulate in this manner and forum if it wasn¹t for
>> Aditya? Or would you Shuddha write at such length if it wasn¹t for
>> Rashneek?
>> I also saw that a sustained dialogue can help people shift positions. I see
>> Khemendra Kaul who is at least willing to listen and talk.
>> And I believe that such a shift is possible because of the quality of
>> dialogue, and a freedom to express, on the Sarai list.
>>
>> So despite Aditya Raj Kaul¹s viciousness where he has graduated from
>> threatening to spit to slap, and his immature but dangerous worldview or
>> Pawan Durani¹s aggression and shifting celebration from Maharashtra to
>> Andhra, and the utter tedium of their arguments that lack the basic tenets
>> of an argument, or their ignorance, or their silly, hostile, masculine,
>> grandiose and empty posturing I believe they should be allowed to continue.
>> This is as much for freedom of expression as much for the hope that deep
>> inside they are just immature and don¹t really mean what they write.
>>
>> As for the specific charges of being *paid* that they made against you
>> Shuddha, I think everyone, at least those who have the energy, should
>> continue to ask them for proof :-) Rather than expel them. Otherwise I am
>> afraid that it could seem like the Sarai list is *punishing* them for
>> errant
>> behaviour whereas the allegations they make are far more serious, and have
>> far graver implications than such punitive measures can correct.
>>
>> Gargi Sen
>>
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