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[Tapas Ray]

Monica,

It is, of course, your prerogative to decide whether the likes of Pawan 
and Aditya should be expelled or not. But I would like to repeat - 
because I would request you to consider - a couple of things I have said 
recently and had said two or three years ago (maybe earlier) when this 
whole thing started with Vedavati (as far as I remember) throwing in the 
cow slaughter issue out of nowhere, refused to stop repeating the same 
"arguments" ad nauseum, and was soon joined by a few others in that 
enterprise.

After this had gone on for what then seemed like an eternity and now in 
hindsight seems like a few minutes, I had said that the expulsion of 
these people should be considered, because it was clear they had no 
interest in rational critical debate and were determined to disrupt such 
debates with their discourse of hate. As this list (in my understanding) 
had been set up precisely as a space for such debates, they had no 
business to be here. I was told that reasoned argumentation was the only 
possible response to whatever they had been doing, and coercive measures 
like expulsion were not acceptable.

I had pointed out that the Nazis had used democracy to disrupt democracy 
and communist parties had been taking part in elections and getting 
elected in multiparty systems with the long-term goal of replacing that 
very system with dictatorship. In other words, there ought to be a limit 
up to which such forces can be allowed to operate freely. If not, that 
freedom - for others - will become a casualty.

The situation escalated over the years. It is worse on this list today, 
but that should be the least of our concerns (or not). It is worse 
globally and internally (in India) in terms of the economy as you have 
noted, and is likely to deteriorate politically, again as you have 
noted. I agree with you - if we go back to the Great Depression and the 
rise of fascists and Nazis, we will see why. And it's there that we come 
back to the question of our list.

Let us pause for a moment here to think why Vedavati, Pawan, Aditya, 
Chanchal, etc., have joined this list in the first place. Does their 
discourse show any interest in history or reason or theories or 
concepts? No. Do they expect those of us who engage them, to change our 
minds? No. Then why are they here, and why do they continue to flood the 
list with their inanities and their hate and their spit? What do they 
want to achieve? My answer is, to coerce us into submission, force some 
of us to unsubscribe in disgust, and effectively take over the list. Why 
do they spend so much time and energy on this? My answer is, they see 
some value in it - they know that this list has earned respect as a 
liberal/progressive forum hosting some high-quality discussions (along 
with their venom) and they want to snuff it out for that very reason.

The question remains, why? The simple answer - in my opinion - is that 
these members are (as we have stated recently) part of the fascist creep 
we have seen in India, which is becoming a thrust with every passing 
day. If we did not see that in Babri, not even in Gujarat, or in the 
recent anti-Christian riots, not to speak of smaller riots and pogroms 
during these years, we should perhaps see it in the revelation that some 
army officers have been involved in terrorist activities. Some of us 
will probably object to my characterization. For their benefit I am 
quoting from the definition of "fascism" in the Collins Dictionary of 
Sociology.

"... anti-intellectualism is a constituent element of the ideology ... 
The following are some of the main constituents in fascist writings and 
actions: extreme racist nationalism linked with territorial expansion; 
virulent anti-communism combined with intolerance of most other 
political ideologies and independent working-class organizations; the 
open use and glorification of physical violence and terror against these 
groups; a reliance on a mass party organized around a powerful 
leadership, and once in power engaged in most areas of civil life and 
depending on continual mass mobilization to sustain support for the 
leadership; the glorification of militarism, the cult of the presumed 
masculine virtues, with women defined mainly as mothers and supporters 
of men; predominant support from the middle classes who are the main, 
though not exclusive, mass support."

The question for us is, can we fight these forces with reason alone? My 
answer is an emphatic no, on this list or outside it.

Tapas



Monica Narula wrote:
> Dear All
> 
> I think its rather cute the way dear everyone is asking for an  
> intervention from the admin - now increasingly feeling like a class  
> monitor!
> 
> The coming years are going to be a difficult ones. There is going to  
> be a massive drop in employment opportunities, liquidity will fall,  
> infrastructure will remain half-built etc. There will also be an  
> increasing shrillness of speech. This, I am guessing, will lead to an  
> aggressive acceleration in both inclusive and exclusive  
> authoritarianism. So the future trajectory of the language game and  
> the rhetorical quotient on the reader-list will be something that I  
> am a little ambivalent about.
> 
> I request list members to be aware that making charges without  
> substantial ground is more to do with incitement than to do with  
> discussion. It is odd that when the world is trying to come to term  
> with global seismic shocks that seem to come at all of us from all  
> directions, archaic accusations about the "foreign" seem to find some  
> votaries.
> 
> Let us think a little harder. The world is not legible. In an  
> increasingly blurring reality, understanding the grounds of  
> accusations and rhetorical posturing will be necessary. Let us think  
> how to deal with language, and what it says, in what can feel like a  
> crumbling world, rather than merely becoming the dust that arises  
> from this process.
> 
> best
> Monica
> List Admin
> 
> Monica Narula
> Sarai-CSDS
> 29 Rajpur Road
> Delhi 110 054
> www.sarai.net
> 
> 
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