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Pawan Durani pawan.durani at gmail.com
Sat Nov 15 15:58:40 IST 2008 

Fatima Bi,

Aap ne pada nahi....."To be continued".......Abhie Picture baaki hai

Enjoy

Pawan


On 11/15/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा <fatimaschool45 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Pawan, you haven't added any spitting-shitting from your or Aditya's side
> in the script. Kuchch maza nahih aya...
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> enter Javed [ A young guy wearing green shirt and a skull cap ] : Has a
>> look
>> at the stage and finds the waekest link , Inder. Takes Inder to corner of
>> the stage and whispers something in ear.
>>
>> Javed : Look Sangh is Bad world . Let us do Anatomy of Sangh . [ winks
>> towards Inder ].
>>
>> Inder : Yes , that is much needed [smiles at Javed ]
>>
>> Meanwhile enter Mr Ray`less [wearing red shirt and and waving a red flag
>> with some symbol on it.]
>>
>> Ray`less : Hail China , hail Red ..........Let us all work towards
>> backstabbing nationalists . I belong to a mindset which has an expertise
>> in
>> that . Let us all group together. I am confidant that on our own turf we
>> can
>> defeat the nationalists. We have done it many times started by betraying
>> the
>> nation during the quit India movement. We can stop any sane thing and
>> bring
>> the development to stop. look at WB , it has saved it's heritage as we
>> have
>> stopped it's clock.The state is just like that what my grandfather saw. [
>> theough Ray`less missed the real wordings]
>>
>> Meanwhile in Audience a angry writer and a friend watch all this drama ,
>> they know the plot of Ray`less , however for friendship and for old times
>> sake they do not point out to Ray`less that he has fumbled. They let it go
>> ,
>> so that Ray'less is considered a good actor and a contendor for an award
>> to
>> be anounced in Beijing.
>>
>> Enter Inder once again
>>
>> Inder : Javed ..Javed ...look these Pawan and Aditya do not allow me to
>> dance nude in the ancient sun temple at Martand . these foolish saffron
>> people do not know art. We have been taught that art is dancing nude in
>> temple , splitting Durga's picture whom millions pray to. I want to dance
>> nude .
>>
>> Javed : [Thinking .....God .....i hope this nut does not ask me to
>> accompany
>> him to a Mosque for the nude dance.......who can escape a fatwa and I am
>> no
>> Salman Rushdie to get a protection ]
>>
>> Suddenly Javed looks at Inder
>>
>> Javed : Hey Inder ....come here ...i have an Idea. I have another ancient
>> ruin temple for you to fulfill your fantasy .
>>
>> Inder : Javed Bhai , what is that ?
>>
>> Javed : Let us go to POK , we have the ancient Sharda temple there . The
>> Goddess of learning . the temple has a good surrounding and in control of
>> Pakistan Army . I would get you permission from my contacts to enter the
>> place , and you can dance nude.
>>
>> Inder : Really ! [ overjoyed ]
>>
>> Enter Fatima [ Wearing a Green Scarf ]
>>
>> Fatima : Yes Inder , we can do anything for you .We would support you
>> whatever it takes . We would be with you through your thick and thin. [
>> Looks at the audience to check the reaction after dialogue delivery ].
>>
>> Javed : But there is a problem . It is too cold there . It's not possible
>> to
>> be nude there during all this cold and snowfall.
>>
>> Inder : Javed ,cold does not matter. It is determination to hurt the
>> millions at cost of fantasy which would not stop me .....
>>
>> Javed : Ok ...let me call Kak to document it and roll the camera.
>>
>> Inder : Ok , Pls do meanwhile I would call YM and Mehbooba . I would ask
>> them tro raise a demand for ' Safar E nanga Naach mandir Main'.
>>
>> Inder picks the phone and starts to sing : Mera mandit toota Phoote main
>> nanga nachoonga........
>>
>>
>> To be Continued.................
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/14/08, inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>>
>>  > Dear Pawan, and dear Aditya,
>> >
>> > In this very interesting chain of mails started by a profound post by
>> > Monica, I had reflected twice already. There is a huge contrast in the
>> > way I wrote these latest two, but, as I have marked earlier as well,
>> > both of you ignore the nuance.  The latest one was a sort of trap for
>> > both of you, but, like Arjuna, all you want to see  is the eye of the
>> > bird in the tree.
>> >
>> > My latest was a sample of how you write to others, how you provoke,
>> > abuse and spit on others. The words ' come on' come one, comrade, and
>> > Bharat Ratna to  both of you by Inder Salim as Prime Minister' it was
>> > all theatre,  but you could not see the purpose  hidden between the
>> > lines.  How naïve, that you educate me about the imperative of MP
>> > before  PM.  Anyway,  I am still at in mood to play it further, so
>> > watch out:
>> >
>> > Yes, I wont take you again to that  ' performance and performativity'
>> > thing, of which I am myself a small student, but I will make a small
>> > skit, please join me.
>> > (  Dear Partha, I need you for a small role, please ).
>> > …………………………………………………………
>> >
>> > Characters:
>> > 1. Aditya ( a young boy aged 11, in khakhi short pants and light blue
>> shirt
>> > )
>> > 2. Pawan ( a young boy  aged 10, in kahahi short pants and light blue
>> shrrt
>> > )
>> > 3. Inder salim ( a young boy aged 14, in khakhi short pants and light
>> > blue shrt )
>> > 4. Partha Dasgupta ( a teacher, in a simple pant and shirt )
>> >
>> > ( scene on the stage: Aditya  has grabbed the collar of  Inder, while
>> > Pawan has tightly grabbed the belt of Inder's short pants . Inder has
>> > grabbed the collor of  both Aditya  and Pawan ). All the three  are in
>> > action.
>> >
>> > Some sticks, mask of Gandhi is lying on the floor,  besides some ink,
>> > paper,caps and beards and other costume as well. Text on the black
>> > board: What is socialism, Secularism and Democracy ? some blurred math
>> > sums underneath)
>> >
>> > Enter : Partha, ( the teacher):  Hey, you brats, what are you doing,
>> > leave his collar, enough of it. Inder, you are elder than both of
>> > these two idiots, I was not expecting you to behave like this. Enough,
>> > enough.  Now, tell me what happened.
>> >
>> > Aditya:  Inder was spitting at me.
>> >
>> > Pawan : yes, and he told Aditya, that Muslims are better than Hindus.
>> >
>> > ( as expected, Inder did not tell Partha Sir, that both, Pawan and
>> > Aditya were trying to open his khaki short pants to see whether inder
>> > is circumcised or not)
>> >
>> > Inder Salim: Sir, both of them are not doing rehearsals seriously, I
>> > just wanted them…
>> >
>> > Partha:  Ok, OK, it was my mistake to leave you guys alone in this
>> > room. You were supposed to do the rehearsals for the show on friday.
>> >
>> > Inder Salim: But sir, this Gandhi mask is broken,
>> >
>> > Aditya, : I have one at my home. Shall I bring it tomorrow
>> >
>> > Partha : no, no, you have applied lot of saffron on his forehead, I
>> > have seen that. The time is short we have to manage without  Gandhi
>> > mask, so just tell me who was performing Gandhi ?
>> >
>> > Pawan: Me sir,
>> >
>> > Partha: so, what you do, just paste, a paper on you face, with text:
>> > Allah Iswar teray naam.  That will make you look Gandhi as well.
>> >
>> > Inder Salim: That is fine, sir
>> >
>> > Aditya : but sir, he was also saying Rama , Rama Rama  all the time,
>> > why not write that instead of Allah Ishwar
>> >
>> > Partha :  Shut up, you  ( bewakaoof ) idiot. Inder,  you just remember
>> > your lines  of Jinnah perfectly, and ensure that there are no fights.
>> > If you repeat it again, I will expel all the three of you from this
>> > play. Remember,  Aditya, you are playing Nathu Ram Godse, right,
>> > oh, the time is too short and there are no student around to play
>> > other roles, so you have to rotate and play other roles too, quick,
>> > start, i am coming back
>> >
>> > Exit :  Partha, The three young student are looking at each other.
>> > Inder Salim is trying to fix the broken Gandhi mask, Pawan and Aditya
>> > are helping him.
>> >
>> > First scene ends.
>> > To be continued….
>> > (  Aditya and pawan are invited to write the second scene )
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 9:56 PM, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Shuddha,
>> > >
>> > > Sorry for the confusion. I used the word creep as in "project creep",
>> > > etc. I was not calling anyone a "creep". I was talking about the
>> > > advance of fascism, which had been slow and steady for some time and
>> > > seems to be gathering momentum now, especially in light of the army
>> > > officer's involvement - which may be the tip of an iceberg. Hence
>> > > "thrust".
>> > >
>> > > I appreciate your concern for bringing back a semblance of normalcy
>> > > here, but I have a couple of things to say. I agree that other
>> > > political formations in India also have authoritarian tendencies,
>> > > possibly also fascist tendencies. But their followers are not or do
>> > > not seem to be intent on - and succeeding in - taking over this space.
>> > > Secondly, I do think that the one we have on our hands here is the
>> > > most openly and determinedly fascist of them all. Thirdly, there is a
>> > > difference between their ideology and the rest's, and at this time at
>> > > least, the specific nature of their ideology makes them far more
>> > > dangerous than the rest.
>> > >
>> > > I really do not see what purpose is served by calling fascism by
>> > > another name. It is, and will be, a rose. It is necessary to use
>> > > labels at times like this. If you do not, you will not know what
>> > > exactly it is that you are dealing with. These demarcations express
>> > > certain qualities that are unique to or predominant in a certain
>> > > constellation of theory/ies and practice/s, and thus set them apart
>> > > from other constellations. It is a matter of difference. A certain
>> > > color is called pink and another brick in the English language,
>> > > although they are not far from each other on the same small segment of
>> > > the electromagnetic spectrum. I am sure other languages have a
>> > > different set of names for a different set of colors, i.e., different
>> > > points, or different more or less narrowly demarcated bands of the
>> > > spectrum.
>> > >
>> > > I also appreciate your concern for open and free exchange of ideas.
>> > > But I am unable to resolve the contradiction between absolute freedom
>> > > and the freedom for some to curb the freedom of others. However, this
>> > > contradiction was resolved long ago by accepting - and inscribing in
>> > > the constitutions of various countries professing democracy - the
>> > > principle that there can be no absolute freedom, and it is necessary
>> > > to curb some freedoms of some people in order not to put others'
>> > > freedoms in jeopardy. Which freedoms are curbed for protecting which
>> > > other freedoms, is a decision made through power relations - whether
>> > > you believes power resides in class or some other social group, or is
>> > > dispersed.
>> > >
>> > > If we are to ensure absolute freedom in this space, we will need to
>> > > conceive it as one that lies outside power relations, which it can
>> > > never do. Though "virtual", It is very much part of the real world,
>> > > simply because each member is part of the real world, with a distinct
>> > > subjectivity, and the real, physical infrastructure of this "virtual"
>> > > space is also part of the real world (CSDS). As far as I know, spaces
>> > > of discourse free of power relations have been conceived only as an
>> > > ideal types, not as a real possibility. If refraining from using the
>> > > word "fascist" helps us experiment with it in real life, I will be
>> > > happy to do so. In fact, I am going to stop using the word with this
>> > > message, and watch how things go.
>> > >
>> > > However, I urge you to remember something Inder has pointed out - when
>> > > things get a little too messy, these people put on a pleasant, smiling
>> > > mask and seek to divert others' attention to things that resonate with
>> > > those others - say, the environment, or the Iraq war. The only thing
>> > > that changes is their tactic from blunt to subtle (hence more
>> > > insidious), namely dividing their opponents by seeming to play by the
>> > > "rules".
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > >
>> > > Tapas
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2008/11/14 Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>:
>> > >> Dear Tapas, Dear Inder, dear all,
>> > >>
>> > >> I would strongly urge you and everyone to temper and moderate your
>> > language.
>> > >> Nothing is served by you or anyone calling anyone a 'fascist creep'.
>> The
>> > >> point about abuse has been effectively made. Let's move on now.
>> Please
>> > do
>> > >> not continue to exacerbate the situation by calling people fascists.
>> No
>> > >> political formation in India today is free of authoritarian and
>> fascist
>> > >> tendencies. And yes, I strongly believe that the only way to confront
>> > >> fascism, wherever it exists, is with an open democratic culture that
>> > >> privileges dialogue and reason. We cannot use fascist methods to
>> combat
>> > >> fascism, because then we become their mirrors and gradually we become
>> > >> exactly like them.
>> > >>
>> > >> Please safeguard and protect the democratic nature of your own
>> > commitment to
>> > >> this space as a space of openness, dialogue and reason where all
>> points
>> > of
>> > >> view are welcome and can be debated in an open way. Lets not gang up
>> on
>> > >> anyone now, not even on those who may have ganged up on others
>> before.
>> > >>
>> > >> regards
>> > >>
>> > >> Shuddha
>> > >>
>> > >> On 14-Nov-08, at 10:45 AM, Pawan Durani wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> On 11/13/08, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:<<<<<<<<<<<< in
>> my
>> > >>
>> > >> opinion - is that these members are (as we have stated recently) part
>> of
>> > the
>> > >>
>> > >> fascist creep we have seen in India, which is becoming a thrust with
>> > every
>> > >>
>> > >> passing day.  >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>
>> > >> Tapas,
>> > >>
>> > >> Thank you for your wonderful statement, to which non of the member
>> > reacted.
>> > >>
>> > >> Pawan
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Monica,
>> > >>
>> > >> It is, of course, your prerogative to decide whether the likes of
>> Pawan
>> > >>
>> > >> and Aditya should be expelled or not. But I would like to repeat -
>> > >>
>> > >> because I would request you to consider - a couple of things I have
>> said
>> > >>
>> > >> recently and had said two or three years ago (maybe earlier) when
>> this
>> > >>
>> > >> whole thing started with Vedavati (as far as I remember) throwing in
>> the
>> > >>
>> > >> cow slaughter issue out of nowhere, refused to stop repeating the
>> same
>> > >>
>> > >> "arguments" ad nauseum, and was soon joined by a few others in that
>> > >>
>> > >> enterprise.
>> > >>
>> > >> After this had gone on for what then seemed like an eternity and now
>> in
>> > >>
>> > >> hindsight seems like a few minutes, I had said that the expulsion of
>> > >>
>> > >> these people should be considered, because it was clear they had no
>> > >>
>> > >> interest in rational critical debate and were determined to disrupt
>> such
>> > >>
>> > >> debates with their discourse of hate. As this list (in my
>> understanding)
>> > >>
>> > >> had been set up precisely as a space for such debates, they had no
>> > >>
>> > >> business to be here. I was told that reasoned argumentation was the
>> only
>> > >>
>> > >> possible response to whatever they had been doing, and coercive
>> measures
>> > >>
>> > >> like expulsion were not acceptable.
>> > >>
>> > >> I had pointed out that the Nazis had used democracy to disrupt
>> democracy
>> > >>
>> > >> and communist parties had been taking part in elections and getting
>> > >>
>> > >> elected in multiparty systems with the long-term goal of replacing
>> that
>> > >>
>> > >> very system with dictatorship. In other words, there ought to be a
>> limit
>> > >>
>> > >> up to which such forces can be allowed to operate freely. If not,
>> that
>> > >>
>> > >> freedom - for others - will become a casualty.
>> > >>
>> > >> The situation escalated over the years. It is worse on this list
>> today,
>> > >>
>> > >> but that should be the least of our concerns (or not). It is worse
>> > >>
>> > >> globally and internally (in India) in terms of the economy as you
>> have
>> > >>
>> > >> noted, and is likely to deteriorate politically, again as you have
>> > >>
>> > >> noted. I agree with you - if we go back to the Great Depression and
>> the
>> > >>
>> > >> rise of fascists and Nazis, we will see why. And it's there that we
>> come
>> > >>
>> > >> back to the question of our list.
>> > >>
>> > >> Let us pause for a moment here to think why Vedavati, Pawan, Aditya,
>> > >>
>> > >> Chanchal, etc., have joined this list in the first place. Does their
>> > >>
>> > >> discourse show any interest in history or reason or theories or
>> > >>
>> > >> concepts? No. Do they expect those of us who engage them, to change
>> our
>> > >>
>> > >> minds? No. Then why are they here, and why do they continue to flood
>> the
>> > >>
>> > >> list with their inanities and their hate and their spit? What do they
>> > >>
>> > >> want to achieve? My answer is, to coerce us into submission, force
>> some
>> > >>
>> > >> of us to unsubscribe in disgust, and effectively take over the list.
>> Why
>> > >>
>> > >> do they spend so much time and energy on this? My answer is, they see
>> > >>
>> > >> some value in it - they know that this list has earned respect as a
>> > >>
>> > >> liberal/progressive forum hosting some high-quality discussions
>> (along
>> > >>
>> > >> with their venom) and they want to snuff it out for that very reason.
>> > >>
>> > >> The question remains, why? The simple answer - in my opinion - is
>> that
>> > >>
>> > >> these members are (as we have stated recently) part of the fascist
>> creep
>> > >>
>> > >> we have seen in India, which is becoming a thrust with every passing
>> > >>
>> > >> day. If we did not see that in Babri, not even in Gujarat, or in the
>> > >>
>> > >> recent anti-Christian riots, not to speak of smaller riots and
>> pogroms
>> > >>
>> > >> during these years, we should perhaps see it in the revelation that
>> some
>> > >>
>> > >> army officers have been involved in terrorist activities. Some of us
>> > >>
>> > >> will probably object to my characterization. For their benefit I am
>> > >>
>> > >> quoting from the definition of "fascism" in the Collins Dictionary of
>> > >>
>> > >> Sociology.
>> > >>
>> > >> "... anti-intellectualism is a constituent element of the ideology
>> ...
>> > >>
>> > >> The following are some of the main constituents in fascist writings
>> and
>> > >>
>> > >> actions: extreme racist nationalism linked with territorial
>> expansion;
>> > >>
>> > >> virulent anti-communism combined with intolerance of most other
>> > >>
>> > >> political ideologies and independent working-class organizations; the
>> > >>
>> > >> open use and glorification of physical violence and terror against
>> these
>> > >>
>> > >> groups; a reliance on a mass party organized around a powerful
>> > >>
>> > >> leadership, and once in power engaged in most areas of civil life and
>> > >>
>> > >> depending on continual mass mobilization to sustain support for the
>> > >>
>> > >> leadership; the glorification of militarism, the cult of the presumed
>> > >>
>> > >> masculine virtues, with women defined mainly as mothers and
>> supporters
>> > >>
>> > >> of men; predominant support from the middle classes who are the main,
>> > >>
>> > >> though not exclusive, mass support."
>> > >>
>> > >> The question for us is, can we fight these forces with reason alone?
>> My
>> > >>
>> > >> answer is an emphatic no, on this list or outside it.
>> > >>
>> > >> Tapas
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Monica Narula wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Dear All
>> > >>
>> > >> I think its rather cute the way dear everyone is asking for an
>> > >>
>> > >> intervention from the admin - now increasingly feeling like a class
>> > >>
>> > >> monitor!
>> > >>
>> > >> The coming years are going to be a difficult ones. There is going to
>> > >>
>> > >> be a massive drop in employment opportunities, liquidity will fall,
>> > >>
>> > >> infrastructure will remain half-built etc. There will also be an
>> > >>
>> > >> increasing shrillness of speech. This, I am guessing, will lead to an
>> > >>
>> > >> aggressive acceleration in both inclusive and exclusive
>> > >>
>> > >> authoritarianism. So the future trajectory of the language game and
>> > >>
>> > >> the rhetorical quotient on the reader-list will be something that I
>> > >>
>> > >> am a little ambivalent about.
>> > >>
>> > >> I request list members to be aware that making charges without
>> > >>
>> > >> substantial ground is more to do with incitement than to do with
>> > >>
>> > >> discussion. It is odd that when the world is trying to come to term
>> > >>
>> > >> with global seismic shocks that seem to come at all of us from all
>> > >>
>> > >> directions, archaic accusations about the "foreign" seem to find some
>> > >>
>> > >> votaries.
>> > >>
>> > >> Let us think a little harder. The world is not legible. In an
>> > >>
>> > >> increasingly blurring reality, understanding the grounds of
>> > >>
>> > >> accusations and rhetorical posturing will be necessary. Let us think
>> > >>
>> > >> how to deal with language, and what it says, in what can feel like a
>> > >>
>> > >> crumbling world, rather than merely becoming the dust that arises
>> > >>
>> > >> from this process.
>> > >>
>> > >> best
>> > >>
>> > >> Monica
>> > >>
>> > >> List Admin
>> > >>
>> > >> Monica Narula
>> > >>
>> > >> Sarai-CSDS
>> > >>
>> > >> 29 Rajpur Road
>> > >>
>> > >> Delhi 110 054
>> > >>
>> > >> www.sarai.net
>> > >>
>> > >> _________________________________________
>> > >>
>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > >>
>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
>> > >>
>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > >>
>> > >> subscribe in the subject header.
>> > >>
>> > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > >>
>> > >> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > >>
>> > >> _________________________________________
>> > >>
>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > >>
>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
>> > >>
>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > >>
>> > >> subscribe in the subject header.
>> > >>
>> > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > >>
>> > >> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > >>
>> > >> _________________________________________
>> > >>
>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > >>
>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
>> > >>
>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > subscribe
>> > >> in the subject header.
>> > >>
>> > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > >>
>> > >> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > >>
>> > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
>> > >>
>> > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
>> > >>
>> > >> Raqs Media Collective
>> > >>
>> > >> shuddha at sarai.net
>> > >>
>> > >> www.sarai.net
>> > >>
>> > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > > _________________________________________
>> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > subscribe in the subject header.
>> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
>> > _________________________________________
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>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > subscribe in the subject header.
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>> _________________________________________
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>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
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