[Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 237Aam admi, that I am, not a intellectual, but moron, what do i expect from my life, ?
rajenradhika at vsnl.net
rajenradhika at vsnl.net
Sun Nov 30 16:50:03 IST 2008
Hi,
All,
I am ordinary citizen of this great nation that is democratic india, my Bharath. I am not an intellectual, a booker prize winner, or a human right activist. I am not knowing anything about being "secular" and I do not jump in my drawing room for Salman Rushdie or for da vinci Code. After 12 hours of hard work, regularly I put on the soothing music from any origin, classical, filmy, of any language to soothe my mind , body and soul. Sometimes I do watch the english visual media where the anchors like Rajdeep, Barkha and arnab screech at the top decibals, ( may be aspiring for one more padma awards and more rewards.?)But I soon use my remote to shut them out as I see them as humans so ambitious that they just use expletives of exemplary imagination, such as "mother of sacrifices, call of conscious etc when none of it is visible in society.
Some times I take a novel to read, may be Jaffery Archer and the Prodigal daughter, or Kane and Abel, sometimes it is essays of Burtrend Russel, and some times it is Gita documentary by Sarvepally Radhakrishnan., ex-president.At times it is mahatmas thoughts on citizens of India in fre india.
The last sixty years have made me see lots of things , lots of emotions, lots of illogical happenings, how the leaders have lost sight of governance and have inly made efforts to fasten themselves to seats of power.In all these the common man, aam admi is lost all, his rights to live dignified life, as he sees the play of muscle and money play with power equation to sideline him, the aam admi, to be just worse than any animal. Even wild animals have been killed for the greed of these leaders and their power.
I have seen the human right activists raise decibels selectively for rights of their favourites, I have seen the intellectuals waste their intellect to be spin doctors for the most ill deserving, I have seen citizens talk of their rights and not of duties as duties are not "mandatory" , but rights are mandatory. !
A society where citizens do not value their duties, which are rights of other citizens, such society is not civilised, but just a mob, where jiski lati uski bhains principle works, nothing else.What is my right is duty of another citizens duty, unless each of us undertand this the democratic life will be chaotic.
I have not seen GOD, but for me the good qualities of living beings is god, god to society, evil is devil. For me Jesus,Ram and Allah all are concepts for mind to understand goodness of life, to live life with full comprehension of what is right and wrong in society.My intellect and my mind cautions me what is good for me and for society, and again it is by experience I have seen what is wrong for the body mind and soul of mine and for the society.All faiths for me are different paths to see good in life, not to fight for good or bad in life.
Now with all this detailed talk of good and bad in life what do I expect after the tragedy of Mumbai in India.? Simple, let the governance be responsive, responsible, without dual standards, with sole intention of delivering good to common citizen of the nation. let leaders come out of their protected ivory towers, let the covers of SPG/NSG be stripped of all the political leaders, with threat perception of common man being higher than these useless leaders, who have no vision for citizens.The commandos trained and equipped for the safety of citizens be used only for that singular purpose, let the leaders live like us, not as special class of themselves, using the NSG as prestige or ego symbols. Even if they have availed the best security, the times have proved that they are as close to death as any of us.Llet these leaders stop torturing common man with their cavalcade of cars at public cost.Instead let them take quick decisions to extend best equipments like night goggl
es for NSG, pending for last four years to purchase. Let the police reform be taken on top priority, let the transfer and posting be out of the hands of political leadership as the police and babus are accountable only to citizens of India not to these wooden legged politicians with characters of straw.Only then we will have good governance without fear or favour to any class,caste, faith or region.Only then the nation will throw up leaders with cision for citizens of the nation.
Let the media and judiciary be impartial without seeking favours for the duty they are doing to the nation, let the decision on pending matters be attended with judicious mind urgently. The land dispute about the Ayodhya be over at the earliest., in which way., with judicious approach.All citizens have their right to their faith, let it be their private affair, not public show of mandal pooja and iftars and congressions. Let all citizens understand their duties to be tolerent to all faiths, but police have no mercy in handling the deviant if they carry the pricate faith too far in public life.
Displaced citizens of any area are responsibilty of other citizens of the nation,be it from irrigation schemes or communal strifes, let this be settled i,,ediately, let the displaced from jammu and kashmir be settled with all facilities back in that area, and law of the land take care of those who break laws in such areas without mercy.If any citizen is treated badly by anybody, let the law take care of this malady with least delay, let the courts hasten to act swiftly.India belongs to all of us, if any regional goon tells otherwise, let the laws be swift to show him where he belongs. Minister if from any region acts in regional bias let the citizens show him that he is minister for the nation, not for the region.
We are the system, let the change start from us. Let us not tolerate injustice, but be tolerent of justice as there no quickfix in justice. A society which tries quick fixes in just and equitable life will go towards mob justice.Violence begets more of it, intolerence gets more irresponsible response of intolerence. So, let us give more if not less importance to our duties as they are rights of other aam admi.
----- Original Message -----
From: reader-list-request at sarai.net
Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:01 pm
Subject: reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 237
To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Send reader-list mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Suketu Mehta and Paul Miller, re: 'What They Hate About
> Mumbai" (taraprakash)
> 2. Exporting Multiculturalism (MRSG)
> 3. Mumbai Police took a wise decision (MRSG)
> 4. Re: Suketu Mehta and Paul Miller, re: 'What They Hate About
> Mumbai" (Paul Miller)
> 5. Fwd: [People'sResistance] peace ( yasir ~يا سر )
> 6. Pt 2Suketu Mehta and Paul Miller, re: 'What They Hate About
> Mumbai" (Paul Miller)
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:00:32 -0500
> From: "taraprakash" <taraprakash at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Suketu Mehta and Paul Miller, re: 'What
> They Hate About Mumbai"
> To: "Patrice Riemens" <patrice at xs4all.nl>, <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Message-ID: <4B670FC9829542B487D81A69AF7CCDF7 at tara>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
> reply-type=original
>
> In fact I did send the same article to the list much before Paul
> did with
> the subject line "What They Hate About Mumbai (NY Times) I wonder
> if it did
> not make it to the list.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrice Riemens" <patrice at xs4all.nl>
> To: <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:09 PM
> Subject: [Reader-list] Suketu Mehta and Paul Miller,re: 'What They
> Hate
> About Mumbai"
>
>
> >
> > Paul Miller recently posted the above mentionned piece by Suketu
> Mehta on
> > the Sarai Reader list, and I just re-posted it to nettime, with due
> > credit.
> >
> > Due credit? It would appear that Paul Miller, while suggesting in
> so many
> > words that he obtained the piece from the author himself, simply
> lifted it
> > from the New York Times op-ed pages:
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/opinion/29mehta.html
> >
> > (one could of course have guessed so much as he left the 'tools'
> line)>
> > As they say in the famous Dutch TV add by 'WC-Eend' ('Toilet Duck')
> > lambasting imitations: it features a heavy German-accented
> professor in
> > the alleged R&D lab where the 'duck' is purportedly being
> developped:> "Nott a ffery neatt procedurre" (holding a ludicrously
> poor imitation in
> > his hand)
> >
> > cheerio, patriizo and Diiiinooos!
> > ('not best pleased')
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:30:43 +0530
> From: MRSG <mrsg at vsnl.com>
> Subject: [Reader-list] Exporting Multiculturalism
> To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Message-ID: <004801c952a1$3d77e650$0201a8c0 at MRAY>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Exporting Multiculturalism??
> British Muslims have become a mainstay of the global 'jihad'
> Analysis by Kim Sengupta, The Independent, London
> Saturday, 29 November 2008
>
> More than 4,000 British Muslims have passed through terrorist
> training camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan, according to security
> agencies, providing a fertile recruitment pool for the Islamist
> international jihad.
> Men from the UK's Kashmiri community have joined groups such
> as Lashkar-e-Toiba, the prime suspects in the Mumbai attacks, which
> have been fighting against Indian forces in Kashmir. Others from a
> Pakistani background are in the ranks of the Taliban and other
> groups taking part in action against British and Nato forces in
> Afghanistan. A former commander of the British force in
> Helmand, Brigadier Ed Butler, has revealed that his troops had come
> across British Muslims in southern Afghanistan. "There are British
> passport holders who live in the UK who are being found in places
> such as Kandahar," he said. "There is a link between Kandahar and
> urban conurbations in the UK. This is something the military
> understands, but theBritish public does not."
> Last year, RAF Nimrod intelligence-gathering aircraft
> tracking Taliban radio signals in Afghanistan heard insurgent
> fighters speaking with Yorkshire and Midlands accents.
> As well as fighters joining their ranks, groups such as
> Lashkar also benefit from funds raised on their behalf in the UK by
> the Muslim community. It has also been claimed that some of the aid
> money donated for the earthquake disaster relief three years ago
> was siphoned off for militant groups.
> Lashkar, previously known as Jaish-e-Mohammed, has forged
> links with al-Qa'ida in Pakistan and are said to have shared
> training camps. One of their most famous recruits was Rashid Rauf,
> accused of being a key member in the plot to blow up transatlantic
> airliners, who was recently reported to have been killed in an
> American missile strike.
> British Muslim recruits have also been involved in other
> conflicts. Asif Hanif, 21, from London, killed three people and
> injured 55 by blowing himself up in Tel Aviv. A companion, Omar
> Sharif, 27, from Derby fled the scene after explosives strapped to
> his body failed to detonate and was later found dead, his body
> washed up on an Israeli beach.
> Somalia's transitional government has accused Britain of
> being the main source of money and men for the fighters of the
> Islamist Courts Union (ICU), a fundamentalist group, in the
> country. The then deputy prime minister, Hussain Mohammed Aideed,
> declared: "The ICU's main support was coming from London, paying
> cash to the ICU against the government. Among those who died in the
> war with the ICU wereBritish passport holders."
> The Independent, in Mogadishu after the Somali capital was
> taken over by Islamist forces last summer, discovered a significant
> number of young Somalis who had returned to fight for the Islamists
> from the diaspora in the West. Half a dozen young men, including
> two brothers from Wood Green in north London, were acting as
> bodyguards for Sheik Yusuf, one of the main Islamist commanders.
> One of the brothers, Hamid, said at the time: "The true Muslims are
> the only ones who are honest and who are patriots. We are doing our
> duty by fighting for the cause of Islam, which is above all
> countries." Britain has also been accused of being the centre
> where a number of terrorist plots abroad were planned. Moutaz
> Almallah Dabas, a Syrian-born Spanish citizen accused of helping
> those who took part in the 2004 Madrid train bombings, was
> extradited from London to Spain after the discovery of links
> between the attack and an alleged cell in England.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:35:46 +0530
> From: MRSG <mrsg at vsnl.com>
> Subject: [Reader-list] Mumbai Police took a wise decision
> To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Message-ID: <004901c952a1$3f9e96e0$0201a8c0 at MRAY>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Read the following report in The Independent, London.
> Mumbai Police took a wise decision: not to shoot the
> terrorists. They knew the harassment Delhi Police faced after
> raiding the terroists' den in Jamia Nagar where one of the senoir
> police officers was killed. So they did not take any chance.
> 'Armed police would not fire back. - I wish I'd had a gun,
> not a camera' .......
> Jerome Taylor talks to the photographer whose picture went
> around the world
>
> Saturday, 29 November 2008 . The Independent, London.
>
> It is the photograph that has dominated the world's front
> pages, casting an astonishing light on the fresh-faced killers who
> brought terror to the heart of India's most vibrant city. Now The
> Independent can reveal how the astonishing picture came to be taken
> by a newspaper photographer who hid inside a train carriage as
> gunfire erupted all around him.
> Sebastian D'Souza, a picture editor at the Mumbai Mirror,
> whose offices are just opposite the city's Chhatrapati Shivaji
> station, heard the gunfire erupt and ran towards the terminus. "I
> ran into the first carriage of one of the trains on the platform to
> try and get a shot but couldn't get a good angle, so I moved to the
> second carriage and waited for the gunmen to walk by," he said.
> "They were shooting from waist height and fired at anything that
> moved. I briefly had time to take a couple of frames using a
> telephoto lens. I think they saw me taking photographs but
> theydidn't seem to care."
> The gunmen were terrifyingly professional, making sure at
> least one of them was able to fire their rifle while the other
> reloaded. By the time he managed to capture the killer on camera,
> Mr D'Souza had already seen two gunmen calmly stroll across the
> station concourse shooting both civilians and policemen, many of
> whom, he said, were armed but did not fire back. "I first saw the
> gunmen outside the station," Mr D'Souza said. "With their rucksacks
> and Western clothes they looked like backpackers, not terrorists,
> but they were very heavily armed and clearly knew how to use their
> rifles. "Towards the station entrance, there are a number of
> bookshops and one of the bookstore owners was trying to close his
> shop," he recalled. "The gunmen opened fire and the shopkeeper fell
> down."
> But what angered Mr D'Souza almost as much were the masses of
> armed police hiding in the area who simply refused to shoot back.
> "There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none
> of them did anything," he said. "At one point, I ran up to them and
> told them to use their weapons. I said, 'Shoot them, they're
> sitting ducks!' but they just didn't shoot back."
> As the gunmen fired at policemen taking cover across the
> street, Mr D'Souza realised a train was pulling into the station
> unaware of the horror within. "I couldn't believe it. We rushed to
> the platform and told everyone to head towards the back of the
> station. Those who were older and couldn't run, we told them to
> stay put."
> The militants returned inside the station and headed towards
> a rear exit towards Chowpatty Beach. Mr D'Souza added: "I told some
> policemen the gunmen had moved towards the rear of the station but
> they refused to follow them. What is the point if having policemen
> with guns if they refuse to use them? I only wish I had a gun
> rather than a camera."
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 04:21:45 -0500
> From: Paul Miller <anansi1 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Suketu Mehta and Paul Miller, re: 'What
> They Hate About Mumbai"
> To: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> Message-ID: <9F17E3BA-9605-4713-B5BD-A82231795EC6 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I have no idea what you are talking about.
>
> Of course it was taken from the times article. It says it at the
> bottom of the email.
>
> Uh?
>
> Paul
> On Nov 29, 2008, at 6:09 PM, Patrice Riemens wrote:
>
> >
> > Paul Miller recently posted the above mentionned piece by Suketu
> > Mehta on
> > the Sarai Reader list, and I just re-posted it to nettime, with due
> > credit.
> >
> > Due credit? It would appear that Paul Miller, while suggesting in
> so
> > many
> > words that he obtained the piece from the author himself, simply
> > lifted it
> > from the New York Times op-ed pages:
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/opinion/29mehta.html
> >
> > (one could of course have guessed so much as he left the 'tools'
> line)>
> > As they say in the famous Dutch TV add by 'WC-Eend' ('Toilet Duck')
> > lambasting imitations: it features a heavy German-accented
> professor
> > in
> > the alleged R&D lab where the 'duck' is purportedly being
> developped:> "Nott a ffery neatt procedurre" (holding a ludicrously
> poor
> > imitation in
> > his hand)
> >
> > cheerio, patriizo and Diiiinooos!
> > ('not best pleased')
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:26:18 +0500
> From: " yasir ~يا سر " <yasir.media at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [People'sResistance] peace
> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Message-ID:
> <5af37bb0811300126y678fac23x2fd91f504873af67 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> From: abira ashfaq <abira_a at hotmail.com>
>
>
> I think a statement emphasizing restraint and cooperation is
> important, but
> I think its is more important to understand to change the paradigm,
> andshift from an apologetic stance where we are distinguishing
> ourselves from
> mobsters, to a one of critical analysis.
>
> Most Pakistanis watched the Mumbai crisis unfold saying this is
> going to be
> awful for us. Yes, selfish, but it was not devoid from compassion
> for the
> Bombayites. No one I know had anything but fear, trepidation and
> sadness as
> a response. A Pakistani reporter told an India one on Aaj TV when she
> unequivocally placed the blame on Pk - that you DO realize Pakistani
> civilians have been affected by terrorism as well - there are so many
> civilian deaths because of terrorism here. But, I think the world
> is DONE
> seeing Pakistanis as humans and as VICTIMS of terrorism - She
> responded YES
> Pakistani society is resounding with terrorism. A classic
> comparison is the
> blacks in america - so many more blacks die of gang and gun related
> violenceand yet, because they are, through a racist lens, seen as
> the perpretators,
> their community's devastation gets no sympathy in the dominant
> discourse.The thing is that we have nothing to do with terrorism -
> that is so Obvious
> and Laughable.
>
> The reality is that most Pakistanis are barely making it and on the
> verge of
> despair. I sense hardly any animosity towards India - and I also
> feel there
> is a waning sympathy for Kashmiris despite the Indian army's daily
> acts of
> repression; this was evident by the lack of interest in the recent
> crackdownagainst activists including Yasin Malik. Pakistanis do not
> even have a full
> understanding of the EXTENT and deep rootedness of racism against
> Muslims in
> India - and have a very vague solidarity with them - if any. They
> would be
> largely ambivalent to any homegrown militancy in India - be it
> Muslim or
> Maoist - albeit the former may have an identity based resonance for
> some.Logically, many more progressive and liberal Indians were more
> outraged by
> the massacres in Gujrat in 2002 because it was their issue, than were
> Paksitanis. Many more Indians were mobilized into legal action,
> condemntation, and rehabilitation work including making sure Modi
> does not
> get a visa to the US. Many more Indians work against the hate
> ideology of
> the Sangh Parivar. Many Pakistanis are not even aware of the
> various sangh
> outfits incl, RSS and VHP.
>
> The international discourse has placed Pakistan in a very precarious
> position. We are under attack by American drones and subjected to an
> internal war on ourselves. Someone at our FATA debate yesterday
> mentionedthat this is the biggest internally displaced crisis in
> Pakistan's history.
> We are no longer in an era of statements of hostility by Pakistan
> and India
> on the same level. (Arguably we never were) India is very much an
> economicand regional power and have gleefully joined in the
> terrorism rhetoric
> directed against Pakistanis, as global powers and players struggle for
> survival, control, and dominance of Central and South Asia.
>
> So while I see a Pakistani's racism towards an Indian as equally
> problematicas the Indian's - I think the two have very different
> connotations because
> of a systemic imbalance of power between the two.
>
> A statement of solidarity should challenge the paradigm, and HUMANIZE
> Pakistanis, and urge Indians to beat the force of the xenophobic
> discourse,question who benefits from this violence..certainly not
> ordinary Pakistanis
> and Indians, give statistics of how our society has suffered
> immeasurablyfrom these same acts of violence.. As I say this I also
> see the irony.
> Violence against Pakistani civilians has become so normalized that
> we don't
> see or expect statements of peace form India progressives and
> liberals. We
> never, ever blame Hindu fundamentalists because we have accepted the
> discourse against ourselves.
>
> AND, the statement should have, of course, a strong condemnation of
> theviolence and grief for the victims of Bombay. The human
> connection is and
> remains...and is almost redundant, but fine to reassert.
>
> Abira
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 02:23:35 +0500
> > From: camillabeagle at gmail.com
>
> >
> > Yes. Absolutely. The situation is very bad.
> >
> > On 11/29/08, naeem sadiq <naeemsadiq at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Dear all
> > >
> > > Do you think PR should give a strong pro-peace statement asking
> for> > restraint and cooperation on both sides, in the rapidly
> deteriorating> > situation between India and Pakistan.
> > >
> > > best
> > >
> > > naeem
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > _____________________________________________________
> > > This is the People's Resistance 'ALL' Mailing List
>
>
>
>
> <All at talk.pakvoices.net>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 04:30:37 -0500
> From: Paul Miller <anansi1 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: [Reader-list] Pt 2Suketu Mehta and Paul Miller, re: 'What
> They Hate About Mumbai"
> To: Patrice Riemens <patrice at xs4all.nl>
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> Message-ID: <3F868E64-4BFE-4D8E-BCEB-3F1F11E6C4C2 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I just realized that Patrice is implying that I would post
> something
> from a friend who has written a review in the NY Times without
> crediting it.
>
> Patrice - that is utterly ridiculous. I often send stuff from my
> cell
> phone because I'm moving around and not sitting at laptop etc I'm
> in
> Vincenza, Italy for a concert for the 500th anniversary of
> Palladio,
> and I was sitting at a cafe using my cell phone for email.
>
> It is really irritating when people get snippy about totally
> useless
> stuff like that.
>
> Anyway,
>
> The other issue I mentioned - yes, my landlord was taken away by
> the
> police for having a huge weapons cache, and I found it extremely
> disturbing and weird. I also realized that my loft in Tribeca had
> been
> under surveillance, which is also a strange feeling to have. In
> light
> of what happened in Mumbai, this is all trivial.
>
> In any case, thanx for the re-post. Suketu throws some great dinner
>
> parties in NY!
>
> Anyway...
>
> best,
> Paul
>
>
> On Nov 29, 2008, at 6:09 PM, Patrice Riemens wrote:
>
> >
> > Paul Miller recently posted the above mentionned piece by Suketu
> > Mehta on
> > the Sarai Reader list, and I just re-posted it to nettime, with due
> > credit.
> >
> > Due credit? It would appear that Paul Miller, while suggesting in
> so
> > many
> > words that he obtained the piece from the author himself, simply
> > lifted it
> > from the New York Times op-ed pages:
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/opinion/29mehta.html
> >
> > (one could of course have guessed so much as he left the 'tools'
> line)>
> > As they say in the famous Dutch TV add by 'WC-Eend' ('Toilet Duck')
> > lambasting imitations: it features a heavy German-accented
> professor
> > in
> > the alleged R&D lab where the 'duck' is purportedly being
> developped:> "Nott a ffery neatt procedurre" (holding a ludicrously
> poor
> > imitation in
> > his hand)
> >
> > cheerio, patriizo and Diiiinooos!
> > ('not best pleased')
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>
> > subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> reader-list mailing list
> reader-list at sarai.net
> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>
>
> End of reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 237
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