[Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?

Fri Oct 17 21:45:33 IST 2008

You have yourself found the answer... Islam has declined to call Bharat as Bharat Mata... and the even the anti-hindutva media has shown this...  M.F.Hussain will paint her nude... 
Aarthi can allow this thing... 
But I believe in that Hindutva, which Vivekananda told:
"In west a woman other than mother is a wife, In India a woman other than wife is a mother"
I believe in that Hindutva which Shivaji practiced:
When a Muslim lady was brought before him, he could not stop staring at his beauty. But on being asked he said 'I wish I would have been your son, I would have been so handsome'

Does Islam teach this. Does Christianity teach this. Quran keeps on shouting about Christianity and Idolators. Bible does the same. Hindutva do not talk even about Hindutva...

And you feel ashamed to be a part of this Way of Living..
Forget... Kashmiri pandits were exactly the same what you are today... They have met the fate.. We will wait few decades to see if you still hold the same statement and vision as you are doing now..

----- Original Message ----
From: Fatima <sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in>
To: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>; reader-list at sarai.net; chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 2:31:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?

Dear Chanchal
Who are you referring to when you mentioned "people like you who believe in more than one fathers..." Did you mean Britta and her ethnic world, or anyone from outside India? Sounds outrageous any way.

I don't want to hurt anyone's sentiments here, but I wanted clear a bit of the family lineage here. When you say Hindutva is our only one father (rest are uncles), there must be a mother too, which I assume is Bharat mata. So, when people other than Hindus live in India, and call Bharat mata their mother, what about their fathers? If Muslims, Christians, Parsis find their religions as their fathers - we all have one mother? Its getting a bit confusing here? My uncle is also the husband of my mother...and so on.

--- On Fri, 17/10/08, chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
> To: "Tapas Ray" <tapasrayx at gmail.com>, reader-list at sarai.net
> Date: Friday, 17 October, 2008, 9:04 AM
> That is true.. you will not die in riots...
> Because before the sword comes to your throat, you will
> accept Islam...
>  
> Only they will be hit who dare to talk about Hindutva
> (Communal)... rest all is secular.. 
>  
> We are proud of what we are originally... the hindus...
> this land of Sanatan Dharma from eternity don't require
> people like you who believe in more than one fathers
> (Hindutva is our only father).. rest are Uncles.. we respect
> them.. but do not want them to hit our father... 
>  
> And no one is answering... if Secularism is your say... why
> don't you conver to Islam once and for all... At least
> we will be clear that we are having clear opposition... not
> confused minds.. 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 2:54:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
> 
> Britta,
> 
> Do not despair. You, I, and others who do not have to die
> in riots ...
> at least that is how things have been for me so far, but
> who knows ...
> can look at the lighter side. How desperate the writers of
> these posts
> sound, going by their tone. I, and probably some others,
> have simply
> filtered out some of these folks. But I have kept a few
> gushers keep
> ...ing (choose your body-function verb) into my mailbox to
> mark their
> territory, so as to amuse myself with the sight, rather
> perversely.
> When I decide I have had enough, I will shut out these too.
> 
> They know they can never win an argument, because they
> speak a
> completely different language, which the rest of the
> members have no
> intention of speaking. So why do they keep repeating these
> things ad
> nauseum? I suspect their intention is not only to hijack
> this list as
> you mention but also to *crash the server* if they
> can't. I think the
> time will come when they will have to be shown the door so
> that the
> list is not physically wrecked.
> 
> Till then, hold your nose and try to laugh.
> 
> Tapas
> 
> 
> 2008/10/16 Britta Ohm <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de>:
> > I'm so so sick of this debate and of witnessing
> how this list has been
> > hijacked and undermined by voices who bespeak how
> deeply the paradigms
> > of Hindutva - that are by now means simple but
> painstakingly flexible
> > - have become entrenched in Indian society. And by
> saying this I
> > already know the - superficially varied - reactions
> that will refuse
> > any responsibility, will advise me, under the pretext
> of 'not
> > differentiating' and with the accusation of
> communalising, to go to
> > Pakistan, to Rome, to consider the plight of the
> Kashmiri pundits, the
> > injustice done to the 'majority community' and
> - to leave this list.
> > Why don't I do it? After hope, is there really
> only masochism,
> > subservience and silent suffering?
> > Britta
> >
> >
> > Am 16.10.2008 um 19:20 schrieb chanchal malviya:
> >
> >> India is secular:
> >> 1. Muslims have personal law, but there is no
> Hindu personal law
> >> 2. Christians have rights to convert the Hindus,
> but Hindus do not
> >> have that.
> >> 3. Muslims get subsidy, Hindus pay subsidy
> >> 4. Hindus are in lakhs in other countries and they
> are not engaged
> >> either in conversion, but the same can be applied
> on them in their
> >> own motherland
> >> 5. Hindus can talk in support of Islam and
> Christianity to be
> >> secular, but talking about Hinduism is communal
> >>
> >> Not to say the last words..
> >> If all Religions are equal, why don't you
> convert to Islam or
> >> Christianity once for all. The problem will end.
> The problem lies
> >> because we chose to remain Hindu.
> >>
> >>
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