[Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?

Britta Ohm ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de
Fri Oct 17 21:52:16 IST 2008 

Regrettably, my previous mail, which you find reproduced below, has  
not yet received approval from the list-administrator, probably  
because of the length of the article I attached. Readers can thus only  
see Chanchal's unsurprising reply to the mail-text, somewhat out of  
context. Apologies
Britta

Chanchal: there is not a single 'religion' that would not claim to be  
not a religion but a 'way of life'.


Am 17.10.2008 um 18:08 schrieb chanchal malviya:

> Even if you are without religion, you will not be spared..
> Read the texts... you are a Non-Believer.. it is that simple...
>
> And do not hype about Hindutva.. Hinduism is the lone faith which do  
> not talk about Religion... Yet it is hated...by I don't know.. I  
> shall call them by people of lost world..
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Britta Ohm <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
> To: chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>; reader-list at sarai.net
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:03:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
>
> There is no guarantee, apparently, that Tapas will not die in a  
> 'riot' - which he himself is very aware of and which your whole  
> rhetoric, Chanchal, moves even more into the realm of likelihood. It  
> is also not any more self-evident that I will not die in a pogrom  
> when I come to India next and travel to Orissa or Gujarat again,  
> because I might be mistaken for a Christian, even though I am  
> without religion - not the same as secular - but these are precisely  
> the small differentiations that do not count in the face of a  
> caricatured 'Bharat Mata' (who would, I'm sure, cringe at what  
> you're doing to her if she could). The reactions to Samina's  
> wonderful and important piece - that fell victim to 'editorial  
> necessities' (??) at India Today - have again, in the foreseeable  
> fashion, undercrored this. The unwillingness to accept  
> differentiations - rather than essentialising 'cultural differences'  
> - is tantamount to the refusal to accept plurality. The resulting form
> of uncompromising hatred against minorities and their varied  
> existences that has taken root in India over the past two decades  
> deeply scares me and many others, particularly because it is  
> increasingly carried, enacted and formulated by parts of the  
> population itself, even if it still thrives most where the state and  
> para-state organisations lend legitimacy to it.
> I know that there is no use trying to discuss with you, Chanchal, or  
> with the rest of the Hindutva mob on this list, that pedagogical and  
> reasonable explanations and enlightenment are lost on you. It is as  
> fruitless virtually as it is on the street, or, for that matter, in  
> a seminar room - because it is a myth that Hindutva only appeals to  
> non-intellectuals. I know your 'arguments', so please, kindly, spare  
> me - or erupt again, if you can't help it, it hardly makes a  
> difference. And that's the actually scary part, the communication  
> breakdown. But maybe you can give it a thought that nobody on this  
> list has so far called for your expellation or has suggested you  
> find other fora to express your views. What do you think it means  
> that people here endure your discriminations and calls for  
> conversions without calling for your own? Could it have something to  
> do with democracy? In the face of the latter's volatile situation,  
> however, what is left, it seems, is
> to use the 'points' you keep raising as a documentation of this  
> hatred, particularly for those in the 'West', who are in the wake of  
> the 'war on terror' partly re-inforced in their  romanticist ideas  
> of 'tolerant Hindus' and 'aggressive Muslims'. I'm attaching an  
> article of mine that was published in the EPW in December last year,  
> just before the Assembly elections in Gujarat. I advise you not to  
> read it, Chanchal, but maybe, hopefully, it is of interest to some  
> others.
> Best -- Britta
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 17.10.2008 um 05:34 schrieb chanchal malviya:
>
> That is true.. you will not die in riots...
> Because before the sword comes to your throat, you will accept  
> Islam...
>
> Only they will be hit who dare to talk about Hindutva (Communal)...  
> rest all is secular..
>
> We are proud of what we are originally... the hindus... this land of  
> Sanatan Dharma from eternity don't require people like you who  
> believe in more than one fathers (Hindutva is our only father)..  
> rest are Uncles.. we respect them.. but do not want them to hit our  
> father...
>
> And no one is answering... if Secularism is your say... why don't  
> you conver to Islam once and for all... At least we will be clear  
> that we are having clear opposition... not confused minds..
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 2:54:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
>
> Britta,
>
> Do not despair. You, I, and others who do not have to die in riots ...
> at least that is how things have been for me so far, but who knows ...
> can look at the lighter side. How desperate the writers of these posts
> sound, going by their tone. I, and probably some others, have simply
> filtered out some of these folks. But I have kept a few gushers keep
> ...ing (choose your body-function verb) into my mailbox to mark their
> territory, so as to amuse myself with the sight, rather perversely.
> When I decide I have had enough, I will shut out these too.
>
> They know they can never win an argument, because they speak a
> completely different language, which the rest of the members have no
> intention of speaking. So why do they keep repeating these things ad
> nauseum? I suspect their intention is not only to hijack this list as
> you mention but also to *crash the server* if they can't. I think the
> time will come when they will have to be shown the door so that the
> list is not physically wrecked.
>
> Till then, hold your nose and try to laugh.
>
> Tapas
>
>
> 2008/10/16 Britta Ohm <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de>:
>
> I'm so so sick of this debate and of witnessing how this list has been
>
> hijacked and undermined by voices who bespeak how deeply the paradigms
>
> of Hindutva - that are by now means simple but painstakingly flexible
>
> - have become entrenched in Indian society. And by saying this I
>
> already know the - superficially varied- reactions that will refuse
>
> any responsibility, will advise me, under the pretext of 'not
>
> differentiating' and with the accusation of communalising, to go to
>
> Pakistan, to Rome, to consider the plight of the Kashmiri pundits, the
>
> injustice done to the 'majority community' and - to leave this list.
>
> Why don't I do it? After hope, is there really only masochism,
>
> subservience and silent suffering?
>
> Britta
>
>
>
> Am 16.10.2008 um 19:20 schrieb chanchal malviya:
>
>
> India is secular:
>
> 1. Muslims have personal law, but there is no Hindu personal law
>
> 2. Christians have rights to convert the Hindus, but Hindus do not
>
> have that.
>
> 3. Muslims get subsidy, Hindus pay subsidy
>
> 4. Hindus are in lakhs in other countries and they are not engaged
>
> either in conversion, but the same can be applied on them in their
>
> own motherland
>
> 5. Hindus can talk in support of Islam and Christianity to be
>
> secular, but talking about Hinduism is communal
>
>
> Not to say the last words..
>
> If all Religions are equal, why don't you convert to Islam or
>
> Christianity once for all. The problem will end. The problem lies
>
> because we chose to remain Hindu.
>
>
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> ___________________
>
> Britta Ohm
> Postdoc
> University of Zurich
> UPRP Asia and Europe
>
> Office:
> Scheuchzerstr. 21
> 8006 Zürich
> Switzerland
> tel. +41-(0)44-634 49 61
> fax. +41-(0)44-634 49 21
> britta.ohm at access.uzh.ch
> www.asienundeuropa.uzh.ch
>
> Home:
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___________________

Britta Ohm
Postdoc
University of Zurich
UPRP Asia and Europe

Office:
Scheuchzerstr. 21
8006 Zürich
Switzerland
tel. +41-(0)44-634 49 61
fax. +41-(0)44-634 49 21
britta.ohm at access.uzh.ch
www.asienundeuropa.uzh.ch

Home:
Solmsstr. 36
10961 Berlin
Germany
+49-(0)30-695 07 155
ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de

Ekkehardstr. 18
8006 Zürich
Switzerland
+41-(0)43-2689077

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