[Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?

[Aditya Raj Kaul]

Inder Salim,

Seems your computer hasn't still been cured. The Caps Lock is still stuck
deep inside. Let it breathe at least..

Love
Aditya Raj Kaul

On 10/18/08, inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> IT IS ALWAYS A USUAL INTRODUCTION TO ONE'S OWN SELF, WHATEVER THE SUBJECT
>
>
> Dear Chanchal ji,
>
>   a couple of days back, after the wonderful presentation by Hans
> Belting on Arab Science and Renaissance Art, a gentleman asked a
> question about palmistry, and  you know what happened, people started
> leaving the hall at IGNCA.   to my surpris the gentleman said  said
> that whatever hunch  you ( Mr. Belting's )  have on  Alhazen...  ( the
> great scientist )
>
> so,
>
> with love and regards
> is
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 12:47 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul
> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Prabhakar,
> >
> > It was actually, Shuddha's usual introduction of his-own-self. How can he
> > not reflect his true street character ? :-)
> >
> > He better stay in his comfort zone; in his dreams - the intellectual he
> is
> > !!
> >
> > Love
> > Aditya Raj Kaul
> >
> > On 10/18/08, Prabhakar Singh <prabhakardelhi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Is it a way a member to address another member by calling him 'moron'
> and
> >> insult him? Moderator may please note and take action.
> >> Prabhakar
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>
> >> To: chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com
> >> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> >>
> >> Sent: Friday, 17 October, 2008 11:39:36 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
> >>
> >> Chanchal, you moron,
> >>
> >> 1. Hindus do have personal law in India, exactly as Muslims do, it is
> >> the Hindu Marriage and Inheritance Act.
> >> 2. Hindus in India have been converting Christians at gun point in
> >> Orissa. And there is no legal ban on Hindus converting people of any
> >> religion.
> >> 3. Hindus proselytize and convert people in other countries quite
> >> actively. Just follow the activities of ISKCON and other Hindu
> >> outfits. They do exactly the same thing as Christians, Muslims,
> >> Buddhists and atheists do, try to convince other people to join them.
> >> There is nothing wrong with that.
> >> 4. Talking about any religion, by anybody, does not make them
> >> communal. I can, and do, appreciate the Upanishads and criticize the
> >> Bhagwad Gita, and find different and diverse interpretations in the
> >> Quran and the Bible or the Talmud, or the Dhammapada. That makes me
> >> neither communal, nor secular. It just makes me a person interested
> >> in knowing more about religion and religious practice (regardless of
> >> how I see my own faith or doubts).
> >>
> >> WIth your numerous inteventions on this list you demonstrate that you
> >> are one of those Hindutva fanatics who actually know next to nothing,
> >> either of the religion you seek to uphold, or of the religions and
> >> ways of life you condemn. Since you consider yourself to be a proud
> >> Hindu, let me tell you, that your words, your pathetic prejudices
> >> actually bring shame and dishonour to your religion, exactly as the
> >> words, acts and prejudices of Muslim, Christian or Jewish fanatics
> >> bring shame and dishonour to theirs.
> >>
> >> Please leave us in peace and try not to subject us to the boundless
> >> depths of your ignorance.
> >>
> >> Shuddha
> >>
> >>
> >> On 16-Oct-08, at 10:50 PM, chanchal malviya wrote:
> >>
> >> > India is secular:
> >> > 1. Muslims have personal law, but there is no Hindu personal law
> >> > 2. Christians have rights to convert the Hindus, but Hindus do not
> >> > have that.
> >> > 3. Muslims get subsidy, Hindus pay subsidy
> >> > 4. Hindus are in lakhs in other countries and they are not engaged
> >> > either in conversion, but the same can be applied on them in their
> >> > own motherland
> >> > 5. Hindus can talk in support of Islam and Christianity to be
> >> > secular, but talking about Hinduism is communal
> >> >
> >> > Not to say the last words..
> >> > If all Religions are equal, why don't you convert to Islam or
> >> > Christianity once for all. The problem will end. The problem lies
> >> > because we chose to remain Hindu.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- On Thu, 10/16/08, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
> >> > To: "Javed" <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
> >> > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> >> > Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:40 PM
> >> >
> >> > i think pakistan will be a better place  for you mr. Asghar Ali
> >> > Engineer.
> >> >
> >> > vedavati
> >> >
> >> > --- On Thu, 16/10/08, Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > From: Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
> >> > Subject: [Reader-list] HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
> >> > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> > Date: Thursday, 16 October, 2008, 11:26 PM
> >> >
> >> > HOW SECULAR IS INDIA TODAY?
> >> >
> >> > Asghar Ali Engineer
> >> >
> >> > (Secular Perspective October 16-31, 2008)
> >> >
> >> > There is always a big gap between theory and practice, theology and
> >> > history. Indian constitution, no doubt, is one of the best in the
> >> > world. It is truly secular in spirit so much so it was secular even
> >> > when word secular was not added to it until 1975 i.e. during
> >> > emergency. If it were truly implemented India would be an ideal
> >> > country to live in especially for minorities, both religious as well
> >> > as linguistic.
> >> >
> >> > However, as we all know there is big gap between theory and practice,
> >> > constitution and governance of the country. India was far more
> >> > peaceful after independence for number of reasons. Firstly,
> >> > nationalist leaders who had participated in freedom struggle and were
> >> > instrumental in framing the Constitution were still around and despite
> >> > various pressures, stuck to ideals and values to a great extent.
> >> >
> >> > Secondly, due to idealism and nearness to spirit of freedom nation as
> >> > a category and national identity was of great importance and often
> >> > caste, linguistic and religious divisions mattered less. Thirdly, the
> >> > process of economic development had just begun and yet people's demand
> >> > for share in development on caste and communal lines was not very
> >> > articulate and loud.
> >> >
> >> > Because of all this identity politics was still subdued and Marathi
> >> > versus non-Marathi, Tamil versus non-Tamil sentiments were not so
> >> > prominent. Hindu versus Muslims feelings were not so subdued due to
> >> > memory of partition but due to other factors communal violence was
> >> > still limited and had not assumed proportions of ethnic cleansing or
> >> > genocide like in Gujarat in 2002.
> >> >
> >> > It all began with series of communal riots in sixties assuming great
> >> > proportions in Ahmedabad in 1969 and Bhivandi in 1970. In Ahmedabad
> >> > nearly 1000 people were killed in Ahmedabad in 1969 and around 400
> >> > people in Bhivandi. But then communal violence remained in check until
> >> > 1977 when again some major riots took place in several places like
> >> > Jamshedpur, Aligarh and Varanasi etc.
> >> >
> >> > Again whole of decade of eighties was full of communal violence
> >> > climaxing in Mumbai riots in 1992-93. The Ramjanam bhoomi movement
> >> > once again polarized as on the eve of partition. Again there was lull
> >> > in communal disturbances from 1992-93 to 2002 when Gujarat took place
> >> > in 2002. Gujarat riots once again made communal situation quite
> >> > fragile and weakened secular ethos in the country.
> >> >
> >> > Now the identity politics soared quite high and national ethos
> >> > considerably weakened. Today everyone prioritize once caste, communal
> >> > and religious identity over national one. National rhetoric, as if,
> >> > has almost disappeared and even Hindutva forces talk more of Hindu
> >> > religion than of patriotism or nation. For them too Indian nationalism
> >> > has been replaced by Hindu nationalism.
> >> >
> >> > For Shiv Sena of course Maharashtra was always more important than the
> >> > Rashtra (nation) and those Hindus too who spoke Hindi the
> >> > Rashtrabhasha (national language) came under attack. Several Hindus
> >> > from U.P. and Bihar were mauled by Marathi speaking zealots belonging
> >> > to Maharashtra Navniram Sena (MNS), a splinter group from Shiv Sena.
> >> >
> >> > Now recently Christians who were never targeted before by the Hindutva
> >> > zealots have also come under attack. Christians, a mere 2.2 percent
> >> > minority and which has contributed so richly to the country in the
> >> > field of education and health services are being killed ruthlessly.
> >> > What is going on in Kandhmal district of Orissa and some adjoining
> >> > districts, is indeed hair raising.
> >> >
> >> > More than 40 Christians have been killed, a nun mass raped, a woman
> >> > burnt beyond recognition, more than 400 houses burnt and looted and 35
> >> > thousand have fled from their villages to relief camps. And what for?
> >> > A myth has been spread by the powerful machinery of Sangh Parivar that
> >> > all Christians convert. Remember RSS propaganda "All Muslims are not
> >> > terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims"?
> >> >
> >> > Orissa is another Gujarat both in brutalities and terrorization of
> >> > minorities. When Christians and Muslims are being so brutally targeted
> >> > the RSS Chief Sudarshan says that both Muslims and Christians convert
> >> > and Muslims want every one to become Muslim and Christians want all to
> >> > follow Christ and so Hindus must give fitting reply. And our rulers
> >> > just look on.
> >> >
> >> > When BJP was ruling over the country and whole country was
> >> > communalized we were feeling suffocated and felt liberated when UPA
> >> > took over and the BJP led Government defeated at the hustings. We
> >> > celebrated UPA's victory specially because it was supported by the
> >> > left which is the only hope for Indian secularism. However, left has
> >> > withdrawn its support on nuclear issue and once again we are feeling
> >> > suffocated in the communally surcharged state of affairs in India.
> >> >
> >> > However, what is most worrisome is that it is happening under UPA
> >> > Government which is supposed to be a secular outfit. Perhaps today
> >> > there is more suffocation than even under the BJP-led NDA Government.
> >> > The UPA has forgotten all its promises made to the country and is
> >> > betraying minorities and jettisoning its secular commitment. Prime
> >> > Minister Manmohan Singh is more occupied with his pet nuclear pact
> >> > with America than the communal explosion back home.
> >> >
> >> > The communal forces are growing stronger and stronger everyday and the
> >> > ruling coalition of secular forces is quite indifferent. The Home
> >> > Ministry is functioning quite in a lackadaisical manner. It has given
> >> > complete liberty to these forces and they are riding roughshod over
> >> > our secular values and constitutional forces. They never got such
> >> > license to function freely.
> >> >
> >> > The NDA Government liberally recruited RSS inclined candidates in all
> >> > key positions and they captured important academic positions too.
> >> > Also, RSS trained teachers and journalists also were recruited on
> >> > large scale. It is because of this that we find communally minded
> >> > people in all walks of life. The media also has been communalised as
> >> > never before.
> >> >
> >> > Today be it communal riots or terrorist attacks most of the newspapers
> >> > and T.V. channels publish police version unabashedly as if it is
> >> > ultimate truth. No questions are raised and it appears as if
> >> > investigative journalism has become story of the past. Media plays
> >> > most important role in strengthening democratic values and democracy
> >> > cannot survive without a critical and alert media. But it seems except
> >> > for few papers and magazines media has been completely communalised.
> >> >
> >> > Even a well-known Daily from south which was known for its strong
> >> > commitment to secularism appears to have developed, of late, subtle
> >> > communal slant. It is indeed very critical period for India. India is
> >> > well known as largest secular democracy in the world. But first
> >> > Gujarat and now Orissa has dented its secular image thanks to Hindutva
> >> > forces. Manmohan Singh was faced with the most embarrassing situation
> >> > abroad and he had to admit that what is happening in Orissa is
> >> > 'shameful'.
> >> >
> >> > But having described developments in Orissa shameful what has he done
> >> > to redeem it? He is quite hesitant to ban Bajrang Dal and resisting
> >> > demand of some of his own Congress party colleagues to ban it saying
> >> > we are watching and waiting for reports from Chief Minister of Orissa.
> >> > It is indeed more shameful than communal carnage in Orissa. Any truly
> >> > secular government would have dismissed Navin Patnaik Government for
> >> > its complete inability to control communal violence.
> >> >
> >> > So far I never believed that Indian communalism could take form of
> >> > fascism as many leftists had been saying all along. Today we see the
> >> > footprints of fascism in India. The situation is very similar to that
> >> > of Germany in the thirties. The unemployed hordes of lower middle
> >> > classes have joined Bajrang Dal and Vishwa Hindu Parishad in large
> >> > numbers and hailing Hindutva leaders. Some of the text books in
> >> > Rajasthan and Gujarat, both BJP ruled states are praising fascism and
> >> > Hitler.
> >> >
> >> > Also, the Central Government is appeasing these communal forces. It
> >> > appears though the Government at the Centre is of secular UPA but
> >> > agenda is of Sangh Parivar. The police appears to be taking orders
> >> > from Sangh Parivar rather than from ruling Congress or UPA. Riot after
> >> > riot be it in Orissa or Digras, Pusad or Dhule the police just looks
> >> > on when mobs loot and burn even during curfew hours.
> >> >
> >> > It is indeed very very worrisome situation. The UPA Government is
> >> > assisting the Sangh Parivar in every way possible. The police is
> >> > riding absolutely roughshod over minorities and latest example is
> >> > Batla House 'encounter'. Though the print and electronic media
> >> > abdicated its responsibility the human rights groups raised questions
> >> > and pricked holes in the police claim of encounter of 'dreaded
> >> > terrorists'.
> >> >
> >> > The situation is indeed very grave and unless secular forces unite and
> >> > play determined role things can get far more worse.
> >> > _________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >      Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Grab now
> >> > http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address
> >> > _________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
> >> Raqs Media Collective
> >> shuddha at sarai.net
> >> www.sarai.net
> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net
> >>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________
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> >>
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>
> --
>
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>
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