[Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?

[Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्]

So it's reservation without reservation.

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
<kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> It isn't reservation. Pandits are accommodated over and above the strength
> of a batch.
>
> On 10/21/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>
>> Did I say there's something wrong with that? That's a strawman
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:04 PM, we wi <dhatr1i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > If minorities of INDIA enjoying spectaculous reservations and benefits
>> and damaging the country like anything, whats wrong if a single state
>> provide reservation to pandits?Today Maharashtra,tomorrow every state in
>> India will do so?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Dhatri.
>> >
>> > --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Shivam Vij शिवम् <mail at shivamvij.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
>> > To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail..com>
>> > Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 6:48 PM
>> >
>> > Jai Maharashtra??? Surely that is not simply the eulogising of a
>> > particular state. In the current political context it is xenophobia.
>> > Or does this, Pawan, have something to do with Maharashtra having 5%
>> > reservations for Kashmiri Pandits?
>> >
>> > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > Notwithsatnding a well caluclulated effort backed by a foreign country
>> ,
>> > so
>> > > called intellectuals and so called jornalists who created a
>> disinformation
>> > > campaign, such as in Jamia Encounter , Parlaiment case are being
>> followed
>> > > more closely.
>> > >
>> > > Number of people are supposed to be under close scanner and their links
>> > > ascertained.
>> > >
>> > > Hoping the truth and the details payouts will come out soon.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Pawan
>> > > Jai Maharshtra - Jai Hind
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 10/20/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
>> > <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> I wonder when right wing loonies of the sort who vandalise churches,
>> > >> burn non-Hindus alive and claim to be perpetual victims - I wonder
>> > >> when they will join the mainstream?
>> > >>
>> > >> best
>> > >> shivam
>> > >>
>> > >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
>> > >> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> > When will Muslims join the mainstream?
>> > >> > By M.V. Kamath
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Organiser
>> > >> >
>> > >> > It obviously does not occur to some mullahs and other reactionary
>> > >> > Muslims that by refusing to sing Vande Mataram and threatening to
>> > >> > withdraw Muslim children from schools where it is routine to sing
>> > >> > it, they are only telling their co-religionists to withdraw from
>> > the
>> > >> > Indian mainstream.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Like the Muslim League of pre-Independence days, one Minister of
>> > >> > Uttar Pradesh has called for the formation of a separate Muslim
>> > >> > state within the Indian Union instead of Harit Pradesh in western
>> > >> > Uttar Pradesh. It is one more divisive step that the Muslim
>> > >> > community is taking which is self-destructive and will only
>> > alienate
>> > >> > Muslims from their Hindu brethren further.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Refusing to sing Vande Mataram on extremely illogical grounds is
>> > bad
>> > >> > enough. Demanding a separate communal state is inviting more
>> > >> > trouble. Not that the idea will ever get accepted. But what it
>> > >> > reveals is a sick mind that continues to be rooted in the
>> > medieval
>> > >> > era. The argument one frequently hears is that Muslims are under-
>> > >> > represented in every State Legislature as well as in Lok Sabha.
>> > But
>> > >> > then whose fault is it.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > If Muslims refuse to jo in the mainstream and insist on being
>> > >> > treated as a minority, they can hardly expect popular support..
>> > Past
>> > >> > experience plainly shows that when communal peace prevails
>> > Muslims
>> > >> > get more seats in the Lok Sabha. It is true that in the last
>> > >> > fourteen Lok Sabha elections only a fraction of the number of
>> > seats
>> > >> > they should normally deserve proportionate to their population
>> > were
>> > >> > won by Muslims. The truth is that they had, on their own,
>> > forfeited
>> > >> > the confidence of their Hindu brethren. If a minority lives apart
>> > >> > and stays apart from the majority community how can it possibly
>> > win
>> > >> > the trust, let alone affection, of the latter?
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Consider the following figures: In the first Lok Sabha elections,
>> > if
>> > >> > one goes strictly by population percentage Muslims should have
>> > got
>> > >> > 49 seats. Instead, they got 21 seats. In the second Lok Sabha
>> > >> > elections, the population percentage remained the same—but the
>> > >> > passions aroused by the Partition was subsiding and the Muslims
>> > won
>> > >> > 24 seats, three more than in the first elections. In the third
>> > Lok
>> > >> > Sabha elections, population percentage-wise Muslim should have
>> > >> > received 53 seats but they won only 23. The highest number of
>> > seats
>> > >> > Muslims won was in the seventh Lok Sabha elections when, though
>> > >> > population-percentage wise they should have received 53 seats
>> > they
>> > >> > managed to secure 49—not bad.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Since then, largely because of emotional estrangement, the number
>> > of
>> > >> > Muslims elected to the Lok Sabha has been falling. From the tenth
>> > to
>> > >> > the four teen Lok Sabha elections they should have got 66 seats
>> > but
>> > >> > they could barely manage to get between 28 to 36 seats. The
>> > >> > fourteenth Lok Sabha elections were in 2004 when Muslims joined
>> > >> > different political parties, primarily to beat the BJP. Muslims
>> > got
>> > >> > ten seats in Congress, seven in the Samajwadi, four in the CPM,
>> > four
>> > >> > in the BJP, three in the RJD and one each in other local parties.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > They can win more, if they get over their antediluvian ideas and
>> > >> > become a modern, liberated people, instead of a people suspect of
>> > >> > terrorism and anti-Indian motives. They can't get votes by
>> > putting
>> > >> > their women in burqas and sending their children to madrasas when
>> > >> > they should be sent to normal primary and secondary schools to be
>> > >> > one with their Hindu and other students from the majority and
>> > allied
>> > >> > religions.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > There is another lesson that they should learn which is that
>> > hating
>> > >> > the BJP and trying to curry favour from the likes of Laloo Prasad
>> > >> > Yadav or Mulayam Singh Yadav or Mayavati will not help them. They
>> > >> > will continue to remain estranged from the majority community, no
>> > >> > matter what arguments the so-called secular parties may put forth
>> > to
>> > >> > win their favour.
>> > >> > Neither in Bihar, nor in Uttar Pradesh has the condition of
>> > Muslims
>> > >> > changed because they voted against the BJP. As Chaturanan Mishra,
>> > a
>> > >> > former Union Minister of Labour (1996-1998) and a prominent
>> > figure
>> > >> > in the Leftist movement in the country aptly noted in Mainstream
>> > >> > (August 17) , the Congress, allegedly the largest secular party
>> > >> > nominated 39 Muslims in 1991 and 1996, of whom only 12 could win.
>> > >> > Similarly, 32 Muslims were nominated by the Congress in 1998 but
>> > >> > only seven could succeed.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Religion can never be the base of getting a ticket. Muslim
>> > citizens
>> > >> > must come up in front and be seen as social workers, serving
>> > people
>> > >> > of all religions. If they insist to live in the past as in the
>> > Shah
>> > >> > Banoo case, or if they seem to be supporting SIMI, an
>> > ISI-financed
>> > >> > student organisation—no matter how wrongly—then they doom
>> > themselves
>> > >> > to being eternally marginalised. And they should not blame the
>> > >> > majority community. As Shakespeare might have said to Muslims,
>> > the
>> > >> > fault, dear sires, lies not in the majority but in yourselves
>> > that
>> > >> > you want to stay separate.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Turks are not less Islamic because the Ataturk threw out the
>> > >> > Caliphate and liberated Turkish women.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > The Indonesians are not less Islamic because they continue to
>> > adhere
>> > >> > in many ways to their ancient Hindu traditions. They are not
>> > >> > hesitant to call their airlines Garuda Airlines; they are not
>> > >> > hesitant to give their children Sanskrit name like Meghavati or
>> > >> > Saraswati (a daughter of former President Waheed); nor are they
>> > >> > hesitant in putting the figure of Ganesh on their currency notes.
>> > An
>> > >> > Indonesian production of Ramayana would put some of our own
>> > Indian
>> > >> > artists to shame; but here in India a section of reactionary
>> > Muslims
>> > >> > refuse to sing even the first two stanzas of Vande Mataram
>> > because
>> > >> > somewhere down the line in the song there is a reference to
>> > Durga.
>> > >> > And Indonesia is 98 per cent Muslim!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > If Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a great Islamic scholar who had his
>> > >> > training in Islamic law and jurisprudence in the famous Islamic
>> > >> > University in Cairo, could respect Vande Mataram and stand to
>> > >> > attention when it was sung at AICC meetings, surely lesser
>> > Islamic
>> > >> > scholars can take a leaf from his book.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Many Muslim organisations increasingly seem to be taking their
>> > cue
>> > >> > from fundamentalist Islamic organisation in Pakistan. It is not
>> > >> > going to help them one bit and it is time they realise it.
>> > Muslims
>> > >> > should not consider themselves a minority. India is a democracy
>> > and
>> > >> > all citizens are equal. Hindus are not that stupid as to want to
>> > >> > hurt Islamic sentiments of Muslims. But we need to live under a
>> > >> > Common Law as citizens are equal in every way. For Muslims,
>> > >> > especially, separatism should be deeply abhorrent. It should be
>> > >> > shunned like the very devil.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > We are one people and India, as Mohammad Iqbal once wrote belongs
>> > to
>> > >> > everyone, irrespective of caste, creed, religion or community..
>> > Sareh
>> > >> > jahan seh achcha Hindustan hamara should be our guiding mission.
>> > >> > Then everything will fall in its place and—who knows—the time
>> > may
>> > >> > come when under sound Muslim leadership, Hindus themselves may
>> > vote
>> > >> > for Muslims. Who, today, is our President? Who, our Prime
>> > Minister?
>> > >> > And who the leader of the Congress Party, oh?
>> > >> > http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?
>> > >> > name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=
>> > >> >
>> > >> > 150&page=12 ---
>> > >> >
>> > ......................................................................
>> > >> > ....................................
>> > >> > http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/india-usa-blog-column168.htm
>> > >> > Indian Muslims: Dealing with Past
>> > >> > Mayank Patel
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Across the world, Present generation grapples with past wrong
>> > >> > committed by previous generation. From South Africa to Germany
>> > and
>> > >> > from America to Australia, Most groups have acknowledged past
>> > >> > misdeeds and apologized for the suffering caused by their action
>> > >> > toward others. Thus, making genuine progress on path of truth and
>> > >> > reconciliation.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > However, Indian Muslims have taken opposite path of denial,
>> > >> > distortion and deflection. They=2 0have received more than
>> > generous
>> > >> > help from allies like Marxist, Fabian Socialist, Islamist etc..
>> > who
>> > >> > are co-travelers on this path. In fact, it is the allies who have
>> > >> > encouraged and lead Indian Muslims on this path. On behalf of
>> > Indian
>> > >> > Muslims, Allies have used denial, distortion and deflection
>> > tactic
>> > >> > to justify even the most unjustifiable mistakes like partition.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Indian Muslim"s pro-partition role is proven beyond
>> > reasonable
>> > >> > doubt. 1945-46 Provincial Elections were fought on a single
>> > agenda
>> > >> > of partition. Partition became possible only because overwhelming
>> > >> > majority of Indian Muslims indirectly voted for it in that
>> > election.
>> > >> > Any objective analysis of current course and arguments favoring
>> > >> > course correction is usually greeted by an old tactic of shooting
>> > >> > the messenger. Three bullets are very popular with shooters.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > First bullet is "Present Generation of Indian Muslims should
>> > not be
>> > >> > blamed for Partition". Shooter conveniently and cleverly
>> > presumes
>> > >> > non-existent intent behind analysis. This is absurd. A course
>> > >> > correction and acknowledgement of past generation"s mistake
>> > could
>> > >> > never imply culpability of present generation. On the contrary,
>> > >> > Acknowledgement would reassure all that apple has indeed fallen
>> > far
>> > >> > from the tree. This would strengthen trust, improve communal
>> > >> > relations and lead to reconciliation and closure.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Second bullet is much more lethal. It is "165 million strong
>> > Indian
>> > >> > Muslims cannot be wished away". Let me clarify, I=2 0would
>> > not wish
>> > >> > away anybody regardless of numerical strength. There is also
>> > certain
>> > >> > belligerence behind this quote. This virulent belligerence is
>> > quite
>> > >> > understandable if not agreeable. After all, Indian Muslims are
>> > 165
>> > >> > million strong and allies who have vice like grip over
>> > India"s
>> > >> > media, academia and politics are stronger. However, it does not
>> > >> > change the fact that current path of denial, distortion and
>> > >> > deflection could never lead to peace, truth and reconciliation.
>> > On
>> > >> > the contrary, The Logical end of this path is civic strife if not
>> > >> > civil war in which there are no winners and all losers.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Third bullet is the denial bullet. There are dozens of denial
>> > >> > bullets. One of the most popular Denial Bullet is silence
>> > >> > hypothesis. It claims that Indian Muslims are silent and allies
>> > who
>> > >> > claim to be speaking and acting on behalf of Indian Muslims are
>> > not
>> > >> > true representative of Indian Muslims. It further touts this
>> > alleged
>> > >> > silence as proof that there is no alliance and Indian Muslims
>> > >> > disagrees with current path of denial, deflection and distortion.
>> > >> > There are many holes in this hypothesis.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Firstly, Silence is not same as acknowledgement of past mistakes.
>> > >> > Secondly, there is no such thing as silent disagreement.
>> > >> > Disagreement is always vocal. On the Contrary, Agreement can
>> > often
>> > >> > lead to conspiracy of silence. Thus, Alleged Silence can never be
>> > >> > interpreted as a disagreement with current path. Finally, Indian
>> > >> > Muslims are speaking with their votes and participation in massi
>> > ve
>> > >> > political rallies. They consistently vote for allies who favor
>> > >> > denial path. In fact more an ally denies and asserts innocence of
>> > >> > terrorist outfits more vote it receives. These votes provide
>> > allies
>> > >> > a claim to speak and act on behalf of Indian Muslims.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > The current path of denial is compounding past mistakes.
>> > More-over,
>> > >> > it makes Indian Muslims over reliant on Allies. This over
>> > reliance
>> > >> > is unhealthy and dangerous. Allies have their own ideological
>> > beef
>> > >> > against Hindus and have selfish interest is making matters worse.
>> > >> > There are many reasons for breaking the alliance and changing
>> > >> > course. Perhaps the best reason is to end a history of wrongdoing
>> > >> > and leave a legacy of honesty for future generation.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Related story:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Forgive, not Forget History @
>> > >> >
>> > http://indiaview.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/forgive-but-never-forget-%
>> > >> > e2%80%93-history/
>> > >> > _________________________________________
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>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
>> > >> _________________________________________
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>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
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