[Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?

[Aditya Raj Kaul]

It isn't reservation. Pandits are accommodated over and above the strength
of a batch.

On 10/21/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>
> Did I say there's something wrong with that? That's a strawman
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:04 PM, we wi <dhatr1i at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If minorities of INDIA enjoying spectaculous reservations and benefits
> and damaging the country like anything, whats wrong if a single state
> provide reservation to pandits?Today Maharashtra,tomorrow every state in
> India will do so?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dhatri.
> >
> > --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Shivam Vij शिवम् <mail at shivamvij.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When will Muslims join the mainstream?
> > To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail..com>
> > Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 6:48 PM
> >
> > Jai Maharashtra??? Surely that is not simply the eulogising of a
> > particular state. In the current political context it is xenophobia.
> > Or does this, Pawan, have something to do with Maharashtra having 5%
> > reservations for Kashmiri Pandits?
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Notwithsatnding a well caluclulated effort backed by a foreign country
> ,
> > so
> > > called intellectuals and so called jornalists who created a
> disinformation
> > > campaign, such as in Jamia Encounter , Parlaiment case are being
> followed
> > > more closely.
> > >
> > > Number of people are supposed to be under close scanner and their links
> > > ascertained.
> > >
> > > Hoping the truth and the details payouts will come out soon.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pawan
> > > Jai Maharshtra - Jai Hind
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/20/08, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
> > <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I wonder when right wing loonies of the sort who vandalise churches,
> > >> burn non-Hindus alive and claim to be perpetual victims - I wonder
> > >> when they will join the mainstream?
> > >>
> > >> best
> > >> shivam
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul
> > >> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > When will Muslims join the mainstream?
> > >> > By M.V. Kamath
> > >> >
> > >> > Organiser
> > >> >
> > >> > It obviously does not occur to some mullahs and other reactionary
> > >> > Muslims that by refusing to sing Vande Mataram and threatening to
> > >> > withdraw Muslim children from schools where it is routine to sing
> > >> > it, they are only telling their co-religionists to withdraw from
> > the
> > >> > Indian mainstream.
> > >> >
> > >> > Like the Muslim League of pre-Independence days, one Minister of
> > >> > Uttar Pradesh has called for the formation of a separate Muslim
> > >> > state within the Indian Union instead of Harit Pradesh in western
> > >> > Uttar Pradesh. It is one more divisive step that the Muslim
> > >> > community is taking which is self-destructive and will only
> > alienate
> > >> > Muslims from their Hindu brethren further.
> > >> >
> > >> > Refusing to sing Vande Mataram on extremely illogical grounds is
> > bad
> > >> > enough. Demanding a separate communal state is inviting more
> > >> > trouble. Not that the idea will ever get accepted. But what it
> > >> > reveals is a sick mind that continues to be rooted in the
> > medieval
> > >> > era. The argument one frequently hears is that Muslims are under-
> > >> > represented in every State Legislature as well as in Lok Sabha.
> > But
> > >> > then whose fault is it.
> > >> >
> > >> > If Muslims refuse to jo in the mainstream and insist on being
> > >> > treated as a minority, they can hardly expect popular support..
> > Past
> > >> > experience plainly shows that when communal peace prevails
> > Muslims
> > >> > get more seats in the Lok Sabha. It is true that in the last
> > >> > fourteen Lok Sabha elections only a fraction of the number of
> > seats
> > >> > they should normally deserve proportionate to their population
> > were
> > >> > won by Muslims. The truth is that they had, on their own,
> > forfeited
> > >> > the confidence of their Hindu brethren. If a minority lives apart
> > >> > and stays apart from the majority community how can it possibly
> > win
> > >> > the trust, let alone affection, of the latter?
> > >> >
> > >> > Consider the following figures: In the first Lok Sabha elections,
> > if
> > >> > one goes strictly by population percentage Muslims should have
> > got
> > >> > 49 seats. Instead, they got 21 seats. In the second Lok Sabha
> > >> > elections, the population percentage remained the same—but the
> > >> > passions aroused by the Partition was subsiding and the Muslims
> > won
> > >> > 24 seats, three more than in the first elections. In the third
> > Lok
> > >> > Sabha elections, population percentage-wise Muslim should have
> > >> > received 53 seats but they won only 23. The highest number of
> > seats
> > >> > Muslims won was in the seventh Lok Sabha elections when, though
> > >> > population-percentage wise they should have received 53 seats
> > they
> > >> > managed to secure 49—not bad.
> > >> >
> > >> > Since then, largely because of emotional estrangement, the number
> > of
> > >> > Muslims elected to the Lok Sabha has been falling. From the tenth
> > to
> > >> > the four teen Lok Sabha elections they should have got 66 seats
> > but
> > >> > they could barely manage to get between 28 to 36 seats. The
> > >> > fourteenth Lok Sabha elections were in 2004 when Muslims joined
> > >> > different political parties, primarily to beat the BJP. Muslims
> > got
> > >> > ten seats in Congress, seven in the Samajwadi, four in the CPM,
> > four
> > >> > in the BJP, three in the RJD and one each in other local parties.
> > >> >
> > >> > They can win more, if they get over their antediluvian ideas and
> > >> > become a modern, liberated people, instead of a people suspect of
> > >> > terrorism and anti-Indian motives. They can't get votes by
> > putting
> > >> > their women in burqas and sending their children to madrasas when
> > >> > they should be sent to normal primary and secondary schools to be
> > >> > one with their Hindu and other students from the majority and
> > allied
> > >> > religions.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is another lesson that they should learn which is that
> > hating
> > >> > the BJP and trying to curry favour from the likes of Laloo Prasad
> > >> > Yadav or Mulayam Singh Yadav or Mayavati will not help them. They
> > >> > will continue to remain estranged from the majority community, no
> > >> > matter what arguments the so-called secular parties may put forth
> > to
> > >> > win their favour.
> > >> > Neither in Bihar, nor in Uttar Pradesh has the condition of
> > Muslims
> > >> > changed because they voted against the BJP. As Chaturanan Mishra,
> > a
> > >> > former Union Minister of Labour (1996-1998) and a prominent
> > figure
> > >> > in the Leftist movement in the country aptly noted in Mainstream
> > >> > (August 17) , the Congress, allegedly the largest secular party
> > >> > nominated 39 Muslims in 1991 and 1996, of whom only 12 could win.
> > >> > Similarly, 32 Muslims were nominated by the Congress in 1998 but
> > >> > only seven could succeed.
> > >> >
> > >> > Religion can never be the base of getting a ticket. Muslim
> > citizens
> > >> > must come up in front and be seen as social workers, serving
> > people
> > >> > of all religions. If they insist to live in the past as in the
> > Shah
> > >> > Banoo case, or if they seem to be supporting SIMI, an
> > ISI-financed
> > >> > student organisation—no matter how wrongly—then they doom
> > themselves
> > >> > to being eternally marginalised. And they should not blame the
> > >> > majority community. As Shakespeare might have said to Muslims,
> > the
> > >> > fault, dear sires, lies not in the majority but in yourselves
> > that
> > >> > you want to stay separate.
> > >> >
> > >> > Turks are not less Islamic because the Ataturk threw out the
> > >> > Caliphate and liberated Turkish women.
> > >> >
> > >> > The Indonesians are not less Islamic because they continue to
> > adhere
> > >> > in many ways to their ancient Hindu traditions. They are not
> > >> > hesitant to call their airlines Garuda Airlines; they are not
> > >> > hesitant to give their children Sanskrit name like Meghavati or
> > >> > Saraswati (a daughter of former President Waheed); nor are they
> > >> > hesitant in putting the figure of Ganesh on their currency notes.
> > An
> > >> > Indonesian production of Ramayana would put some of our own
> > Indian
> > >> > artists to shame; but here in India a section of reactionary
> > Muslims
> > >> > refuse to sing even the first two stanzas of Vande Mataram
> > because
> > >> > somewhere down the line in the song there is a reference to
> > Durga.
> > >> > And Indonesia is 98 per cent Muslim!
> > >> >
> > >> > If Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a great Islamic scholar who had his
> > >> > training in Islamic law and jurisprudence in the famous Islamic
> > >> > University in Cairo, could respect Vande Mataram and stand to
> > >> > attention when it was sung at AICC meetings, surely lesser
> > Islamic
> > >> > scholars can take a leaf from his book.
> > >> >
> > >> > Many Muslim organisations increasingly seem to be taking their
> > cue
> > >> > from fundamentalist Islamic organisation in Pakistan. It is not
> > >> > going to help them one bit and it is time they realise it.
> > Muslims
> > >> > should not consider themselves a minority. India is a democracy
> > and
> > >> > all citizens are equal. Hindus are not that stupid as to want to
> > >> > hurt Islamic sentiments of Muslims. But we need to live under a
> > >> > Common Law as citizens are equal in every way. For Muslims,
> > >> > especially, separatism should be deeply abhorrent. It should be
> > >> > shunned like the very devil.
> > >> >
> > >> > We are one people and India, as Mohammad Iqbal once wrote belongs
> > to
> > >> > everyone, irrespective of caste, creed, religion or community..
> > Sareh
> > >> > jahan seh achcha Hindustan hamara should be our guiding mission.
> > >> > Then everything will fall in its place and—who knows—the time
> > may
> > >> > come when under sound Muslim leadership, Hindus themselves may
> > vote
> > >> > for Muslims. Who, today, is our President? Who, our Prime
> > Minister?
> > >> > And who the leader of the Congress Party, oh?
> > >> > http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?
> > >> > name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=
> > >> >
> > >> > 150&page=12 ---
> > >> >
> > ......................................................................
> > >> > ....................................
> > >> > http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/india-usa-blog-column168.htm
> > >> > Indian Muslims: Dealing with Past
> > >> > Mayank Patel
> > >> >
> > >> > Across the world, Present generation grapples with past wrong
> > >> > committed by previous generation. From South Africa to Germany
> > and
> > >> > from America to Australia, Most groups have acknowledged past
> > >> > misdeeds and apologized for the suffering caused by their action
> > >> > toward others. Thus, making genuine progress on path of truth and
> > >> > reconciliation.
> > >> >
> > >> > However, Indian Muslims have taken opposite path of denial,
> > >> > distortion and deflection. They=2 0have received more than
> > generous
> > >> > help from allies like Marxist, Fabian Socialist, Islamist etc..
> > who
> > >> > are co-travelers on this path. In fact, it is the allies who have
> > >> > encouraged and lead Indian Muslims on this path. On behalf of
> > Indian
> > >> > Muslims, Allies have used denial, distortion and deflection
> > tactic
> > >> > to justify even the most unjustifiable mistakes like partition.
> > >> >
> > >> > Indian Muslim"s pro-partition role is proven beyond
> > reasonable
> > >> > doubt. 1945-46 Provincial Elections were fought on a single
> > agenda
> > >> > of partition. Partition became possible only because overwhelming
> > >> > majority of Indian Muslims indirectly voted for it in that
> > election.
> > >> > Any objective analysis of current course and arguments favoring
> > >> > course correction is usually greeted by an old tactic of shooting
> > >> > the messenger. Three bullets are very popular with shooters.
> > >> >
> > >> > First bullet is "Present Generation of Indian Muslims should
> > not be
> > >> > blamed for Partition". Shooter conveniently and cleverly
> > presumes
> > >> > non-existent intent behind analysis. This is absurd. A course
> > >> > correction and acknowledgement of past generation"s mistake
> > could
> > >> > never imply culpability of present generation. On the contrary,
> > >> > Acknowledgement would reassure all that apple has indeed fallen
> > far
> > >> > from the tree. This would strengthen trust, improve communal
> > >> > relations and lead to reconciliation and closure.
> > >> >
> > >> > Second bullet is much more lethal. It is "165 million strong
> > Indian
> > >> > Muslims cannot be wished away". Let me clarify, I=2 0would
> > not wish
> > >> > away anybody regardless of numerical strength. There is also
> > certain
> > >> > belligerence behind this quote. This virulent belligerence is
> > quite
> > >> > understandable if not agreeable. After all, Indian Muslims are
> > 165
> > >> > million strong and allies who have vice like grip over
> > India"s
> > >> > media, academia and politics are stronger. However, it does not
> > >> > change the fact that current path of denial, distortion and
> > >> > deflection could never lead to peace, truth and reconciliation.
> > On
> > >> > the contrary, The Logical end of this path is civic strife if not
> > >> > civil war in which there are no winners and all losers.
> > >> >
> > >> > Third bullet is the denial bullet. There are dozens of denial
> > >> > bullets. One of the most popular Denial Bullet is silence
> > >> > hypothesis. It claims that Indian Muslims are silent and allies
> > who
> > >> > claim to be speaking and acting on behalf of Indian Muslims are
> > not
> > >> > true representative of Indian Muslims. It further touts this
> > alleged
> > >> > silence as proof that there is no alliance and Indian Muslims
> > >> > disagrees with current path of denial, deflection and distortion.
> > >> > There are many holes in this hypothesis.
> > >> >
> > >> > Firstly, Silence is not same as acknowledgement of past mistakes.
> > >> > Secondly, there is no such thing as silent disagreement.
> > >> > Disagreement is always vocal. On the Contrary, Agreement can
> > often
> > >> > lead to conspiracy of silence. Thus, Alleged Silence can never be
> > >> > interpreted as a disagreement with current path. Finally, Indian
> > >> > Muslims are speaking with their votes and participation in massi
> > ve
> > >> > political rallies. They consistently vote for allies who favor
> > >> > denial path. In fact more an ally denies and asserts innocence of
> > >> > terrorist outfits more vote it receives. These votes provide
> > allies
> > >> > a claim to speak and act on behalf of Indian Muslims.
> > >> >
> > >> > The current path of denial is compounding past mistakes.
> > More-over,
> > >> > it makes Indian Muslims over reliant on Allies. This over
> > reliance
> > >> > is unhealthy and dangerous. Allies have their own ideological
> > beef
> > >> > against Hindus and have selfish interest is making matters worse.
> > >> > There are many reasons for breaking the alliance and changing
> > >> > course. Perhaps the best reason is to end a history of wrongdoing
> > >> > and leave a legacy of honesty for future generation.
> > >> >
> > >> > Related story:
> > >> >
> > >> > Forgive, not Forget History @
> > >> >
> > http://indiaview.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/forgive-but-never-forget-%
> > >> > e2%80%93-history/
> > >> > _________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
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