[Reader-list] I don't oppose your thinking; but spit at it
Shuddhabrata Sengupta
shuddha at sarai.net
Thu Oct 23 20:04:02 IST 2008
Dear Real Unreal,
The function of a list like this is not to provide any person with
the means to exhibit their chosen perversity and personal fetish,
there are several spaces in the online world where those desires can
be fulfilled, consensually. This list is not one of those spaces.
I fail to see how or why listening to someone like you insult other
people's mothers and sisters, or even yourself, with misogynist
outbursts can in any way help me understand the world. All it helps
me understand is that you are the kind of person who hides behind an
assumed handle while they hurl abuse at the world.
It sort of reminds me of the respectable middle class men in public
transport buses in Delhi who grope girls and women in the anonymity
of a crowd and then enforce a rigid patriarchy at home and insist
that their wives, daughters and sisters 'cover themselves up'. They
too, love to invoke the mothers and sisters of others while invoking
the defence of their little patch of proprietary masculine pride.
If you want to exhibit your well protected machismo, I suggest that
you take your fake bravado elsewhere. Or else we can always take
measures to ensure that you are indeed, taken elsewhere.
There is an emerging consensus on this list that a certain kind of
language be avoided. I propose that anyone who uses sexist and
misogynist language (by which I mean expressions insulting to women
as women) be ejected from the list. I have a great degree of
tolerance for almost every kind of everyday fascism, which I am happy
to combat with arguments, but I do draw the line at the kind of
thuggery that seeks to intimidate everyone on this list by its
willingness to insult people on the basis of gender. Especially as I
think that this base level of consciousness does not need to be
dignified by the labour of counter-argumentation and debate.
As in real life, so too on this list, a well timed and precisely
targetted blow that silences the speaker of sexist speech, is in my
opinion the best antidote in circumstances such as the ones that you
seem to enjoy provoking. If this list were a physical space, I would
know exactly what to do if someone crossed the line with regard to
misogyny, as I think you have done.
We have had situations like this before, and we have had to reprimand
the speakers of sexist and misogynist speech, even if the speakers
were saying what they had said in the face of the worst kind of
communal hate speech. In that event, both were reprimanded, with
equal severity. Luckily, we did not face this kind of offensive
behaviour until you made your real-unreal persona blossom into the
midst of our consciousness.
Since this is a virtual space, our options are limited. The well
timed blow has to take a virtual form. But please understand that it
does not exclude the possibility of a summary exclusion of the person
who offends by speaking in a misogynist and abusive manner, not just
by their name, and list handle, but also by their IP address.
regards
Shuddha
On 22-Oct-08, at 6:20 PM, Real Unreal wrote:
> looks my dear friend
> this all discussion on the list on different topics is not doing one
> good thing, it exposes the hidden intentions of participants.
>
> besides this what is like is that people should take about their
> intense personal lives. which they will not. all they do is '
> representation' of this or that.
>
> hindu , muslim, kashmiri, bengali, etc etc, this sometimes is boring
> for me. but since nothing is happening around, so let it be.
>
> i enjoy reading this and that.
>
> your choice of slangs ( gali ) is bascially about our real intentions
> again. now see Adiyta sahib can not write the way you write. he writes
> on the list as if it a havan puja, so can not see the small wet
> erection under dothi of the pandit shouting mantras.
>
> you are free from that. but can we return to the language which is
> actually in use out there.
>
> now see how much chootiya, behenchod ( sister fucker ) is around but
> we never hear that on the list, as if it is prohibited.
> may be if everybody uses that kind of language, the sponsors might be
> close it down.
>
> anyway, by let us be chootiya, by not using chootiya so often,
>
> what is important here, to my mind is that we need not look like those
> journalists who talk decent in the newspapers, but when they meet in
> private spaces and use some other language
>
> and if it is the same, then we have better articles on all subjects,
> in the print media out there
>
> why we need the list, if we can not use slangs publicly,
>
> who is afraid of being known as chootiya in the LIst. we all
> chootiyas, let us declare it first and then debate the serious issues,
> in a very funny way.
>
> you need not agree
>
> ru
>
> On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> RL,
>>
>> Thanks for your message. Unfortunately, though I am moderately
>> proficient in Hindi, I can't follow quite a it of what you say,
>> probably because its in the Roman script and I can't associate it
>> with
>> words that are actually known to me. I do understand some, but not
>> all. I think I understand the first sentence, in which you seem to
>> say
>> that I have a clean heart. I must thank you for your kind words if my
>> interpretation is correct. On this assumption, I am curious to know
>> what it is in my writing that brought you to such a positive
>> conclusion about me.
>>
>> Please do not hesitate to let me know if my interpretation is wrong,
>> and you meant something less flattering. I will not mind at all.
>> Yesterday, another list member wrote offlist, in very indirect terms,
>> that he didn't like the present tone of my posts. I asked him to
>> clarify, assuring him that I would not be offended. He took my word
>> for it and told me what he meant. I explained why I was writing
>> what I
>> was writing, apologising for the discomfort I had caused, and I think
>> he was surprised by my reaction.
>>
>> The point of this long paragraph is to assure you that you can
>> tell me
>> whatever you want - positive, negative, neutral, downright "gali",
>> etc. - in English, so that I understand.
>>
>> As for the messages you have posted on the list, I am a little
>> concerned that the many foreigners who are on the list will probably
>> feel left out by your Hindi/Urdu messages. I would urge you to
>> consider this.
>>
>> I will look forward to reading English translations of your posts ...
>> leaving out - on the list - things like "labda" that I seem to have
>> seen, and assume refers to what most of us know as the male genital.
>> But I would appreciate it if you would take the trouble to send me,
>> offlist, the "uncensored" version, as I shall definitely enjoy the
>> flavour, even if it is a "gali" meant for me. I love gali and have
>> enjoyed exchanging choice ones with my friends.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Tapas
>>
>>
>>
>> 2008/10/19 Real Unreal <hiddenbuthere at gmail.com>:
>>> achha hai, tum dil kay bohot saaf ho,
>>>
>>> magar kay karan yeh naddan log kuch zayada hi raita phala rahain
>>> hai
>>>
>>> bazar mein akal biknay ko hoti, to ak ad pav is aditya londay ko
>>> pila
>>> data, acha kaam kar sakta hai, magar galat jamat mein lagta hai fus
>>> gaya hi. chalo, hindustan ki kistam, asi hi sahi
>>>
>>> ru
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 12:56 AM, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> It's just about Aditya.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I love your chosen name.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2008/10/18 Real Unreal <hiddenbuthere at gmail.com>:
>>>>> was this only because of spitting by Aditya, or is it a
>>>>> fragment of a
>>>>> large piece?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Tapas Ray
>>>>> <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> So much spit! Bottomless well of spittle surrounded by date
>>>>>> palms.
>>>>>> Trees bent low under the weight of large red pomegranates (not
>>>>>> sure)
>>>>>> bursting with pinkish paan-tinged spittle in the middle of a
>>>>>> burning
>>>>>> desert of pseudosecular bandits. The weary soldier, battered and
>>>>>> bloody, survivor of horrific ideological battles, parks his
>>>>>> donkey
>>>>>> with red sindoor swastikas painted on its sides. He sends the
>>>>>> bucket
>>>>>> rattling down into the well, from which emanates a cry of
>>>>>> despair - "I
>>>>>> am yours. Spare me, please! do not drink me!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2008/10/18 Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>> As List members have been time and again saying, INDER SALIM
>>>>>>> or whatever you
>>>>>>> name is, you suffer from some psychological problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, in this latest e-mail; you indirectly compare yourself
>>>>>>> with Lal Ded.
>>>>>>> What can be worse ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would surely spit at a person's thinking; who belongs to my
>>>>>>> own community;
>>>>>>> has suffered the brunt of Islamic Terrorism; and still acts
>>>>>>> deaf and dumb. I
>>>>>>> would spit at his thinking when he acts ignorant or his name,
>>>>>>> sur-name,
>>>>>>> community, country and even religion. I repeat I would spit
>>>>>>> at you thinking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does that make you happy ? The List Members know who said it
>>>>>>> now - LOD &
>>>>>>> CLEAR. Happy ???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, I'm no younger brother of yours. Kindly stay away.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm and will always be a prod Kashmiri Pandit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Love
>>>>>>> Aditya Raj Kaul
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>> _________________________________________
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>>> Critiques & Collaborations
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>>
> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
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Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net
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