[Reader-list] one more Kashmiri Pundit email & I'll commit suicid
we wi
dhatr1i at yahoo.com
Tue Oct 28 20:23:21 IST 2008
Tapas,
Thats ok. Dont worry .
Regarding reading rest of the mail,
if you are not in a position to read mail, how can we expect to read all those. Probably you fear that if you read them you may change. . Using samskrit wording hmm. lol Take it easy SIR.
Happy diwali.
Dhatri.
--- On Tue, 10/28/08, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:
From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] one more Kashmiri Pundit email & I'll commit suicid
To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 7:04 PM
we wi/dhatri,
Your weirdness is getting harder by the day to keep up with. This, and
your considerable power of incomprehension, have produced an absolutely
lethal mix. Someday you are going to kill us all with this brahmastra.
Anyway, let me explain that, when I said you and the other person I
named were the priests of the Hindutva army on this list, I said it in a
figurative way, not in a literal sense. As for the rest of your mail, I
do not feel energetic enough to read it at this time. Forgive me. Maybe
later.
Tapas
we wi wrote:
> What a frustration! By discussing these I shall not be a member of any
> political/religous member.
>
> >>>People like we wi/Dhatri and Radhikarajen/Bhat - obviously
lacking the
> >>>courage to divulge their real names - are the priestly folks
where
> >>>people like Pawan are the kshatriyas in the varnasrama type
"division
> >>>of labour" among this list's saffron flag-bearers.
>
> Lol haha! I neither I be a priest nor I took coaching in any! I am a
> civilian of this country called INDIA. Better i say responsible.
>
> >>>(Let us hope the kshatriyas will earn a promotion to
brahminhood
> sometime.)
> Only one time happened in the HISTORY, Surya vamshi royal king
> Viswamithra was attained BRAHMARSHI status after years of TAPAS
> breakdown to conquer the (kam,krodh,lobh,moha,mada,matsarya) and again
> TAPAS. Your interest to know PAWAN caste is silly. I am not asking to
> perform holy practices but You should try to know what is what and their
> contents by original.
>
> 1)What is veda who divided them into 4?
> 2)What is upanishad,purana?
> 3)What is Ramayan?
> 4)What is Mahabharat?
> 5)What is Bhagavat(if you read the original sanskrit version then u come
> to know how this world created,maintained and going to destroy by
> BRAHMA,VISHNU,MAHESWAR. The list of people who rule earth until end of
> KALIYUG)
> 5)What is BhagavatGITA?
>
>
> Vishnu sahasranaam,lalitha sahasranaam are just parts of it. They are
> not just scriptures or slokas u come to know!
> This is the history n this is the INDIA and we are into social lives.
> If you are abusing n spreading false information over religon, caste and
> INDIA how can anybody tolerate(EVERY BODY FEEL AND RESPOND WITH HOWEVER
> SMALL INFORMATION THEY KNOW ABOUT these, I CAN'T GIVE NUMBER IN
> FIGURES). It is better if somebody like your parents/grand parents
> would have told to you about these as BEDTIME stories. I wont neither
> ask you or anybody to byheart,digest but atleast you should know. It is
> good if you read some of them. You need not join or leave your day to
> day work but just try to spend few minutes(say 10minutes) for ............
>
> Know the history,cultrue,tradion and find yourself,
>
> PS: Here "you" mean those are all who spread wrong
information/gossip
> about INDIA, let they be
> leftists,islamists,aethists,separatists,Christians,half backed
> HISTORIANS(INDIAN OR WESTREN) selfish natured propagandists.
>
> --- On *Mon, 10/27/08, Tapas Ray /<tapasrayx at gmail.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] one more Kashmiri Pundit email &
I'll
> commit suicid
> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 11:35 PM
>
> Kshemendra,
>
> Thank you. Your concern is quite natural. I perfectly under why you
> see what seems like a lack of concern for KPs on account of a process
> similar to the one for which some of us have shown concern for people
> (not just those who come under the ST category in law) displaced by
> so-called development projects. I think this lack of concern is
> apparent, not real, and is the result of something I have mentioned in
> a couple of mails, including the last one (to which you responded) -
> what Aditya, Pawan and some others have been doing on this list. It is
> because of these people that I, personally, would think ten times
> before even attending the kind of meeting Kirdar has proposed even if
> I were in the vicinity (which I am not). Would the KPs be worse off
> because of my hypothetical absence from that hypothetical meeting? I
> don't think so. And there woud always the Pawans and Adityas of
the
> world to take up the slack, if there were any slack to be taken up.
>
> If you want to know exactly why I think they are propagandists of the
> Parivar, I will have to go through months of posts in the archive.
> That will also help me gauge the depth of their fascist
> leanings/fascism. But this will be a major project, taking up a huge
> amount of time and energy. I cannot afford that at the moment, but
> plan to take up in future. Thank you for giving me a great idea.
>
> In their case, it is not a question of "not thinking like
me". I do
> not agree with everything Inder says, but I do not consider him a
> fanatic of any sort, much less a fascist. Some of the things Shivam
> has written in the past - after his return from Kashmir - has seemed
> to me a jaundiced view. But he never sounded like a fanatic or
> fascist.
>
> It's not their (Pawan, etc.) religiosity but the way they have
forced
> the Hindutva agenda on this list - it was Vedavati who started it two
> or three years ago, if I remember - and insist on bullying the rest of
> us into submission that I find not only distasteful but totally
> unacceptable. Unfortunately, this is what the Parivar is all about.
> Had that not been the case, BJP, Shiv Sena, etc., would have got many
> more votes than it gets.
>
> People like we wi/Dhatri and Radhikarajen/Bhat - obviously lacking the
> courage to divulge their real names - are the priestly folks where
> people like Pawan are the kshatriyas in the varnasrama type
"division
> of labour" among this list's saffron flag-bearers. (Let us
hope the
> kshatriyas will earn a promotion to brahminhood sometime.) You answer
> them with history, logic, etc., and they get back to you with shlokas
> and thousands of words of obscure and often undecipherable prose,
> regurgitating stuff they have found in the scriptures or secondary
> sources. As if these scriptures have no history, are above history the
> way the Babari Masjid demolition was about "Hindu
sentiment", not
> history - which could be rewritten to accommodate the
"sentiments" of
> these fascists, not the entire Hindu population by far.
>
> Of course, the Vedas were revealed, not written by mortals who ate,
> drank, possibly made merry, and definitely disposed of their bodily
> waste in the morning. How could I forget that? I guess I forget
> because this list is run from an institution called the Centre for
> Studies in Developing Societies, which is affiliated to something
> called the Indian Council of Social Science Research.
>
> Tapas
>
>
> 2008/10/27 Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>:
> > Dear Tapas
> >
> > The respect is mutual else I would have not corresponded with you
in
> PRIVATE
> > as we did some earlier.
> >
> > I would also not have bothered to address your mail on this topic
if I did
> > not beleive that you are a thinking person with whom I wanted to
register
> my
> > thoughts on this topic.
> >
> > You cannot be faulted for using the term 'migrants' since
it is
> common
> > currency. It has a particularness of meaning which (in my
opinion) does
> not
> > describe the reality. That is why I requested that the issue be
seen
> through
> > the IDP lens which (in my opinion) would be the more appropriate
one.
> There
> > was no need for you to apologise. It was more than enough that
you agreed
> to
> > do so.
> >
> > I personally do not think that KPs have need for any sympathy.
> >
> > The thrust of my thoughts was that here I have in front of my
eyes the
> slow
> > but sure extinction taking place of a Unique Human
> Socio/Cultural/Religious
> > sub-set. Where are those who are ever so forthcoming to take up
as a cause
> > similar Displacement and Threatened Extinction of other Unique
> > Human Sub-Sets and Unique Non-Human Sub-Sets? More than many of
them are
> on
> > this very List taking up a variety of 'causes'.
> >
> > Instead you get 'moronic' commentaries by a Kirdar or a
Karim or a
> Shivam or
> > that Inder Salim.
> >
> > You have named some KP names on this List. I am not familiar with
what
> > singularly or (if any) collectively is their Political or
> Politico-Religious
> > ideology. But what I do know from my membership of some KP forums
is that
> > they are dedicatedly involved in trying to ease the sufferings of
members
> of
> > the KP community through practical action.
> >
> > It is also possible that some amongst them subscribe to the
> "Hindutva"
> > agenda.
> >
> > I personally have contempt for the "Hindutva" agenda
for the
> simple reason
> > that I see it as threatening the integrity of India. Anyone who
speaks or
> > acts in a manner that promotes or will lead to disintegration of
India is
> > an enemy of India. Is my enemy. It does not matter to me whether
it is a
> > Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Isai, Atheist or Agnostic, Capitalist,
Socialist or
> > Communist. Or is a Kashmiri Pandit.
> >
> > At the same time, you will see people (on this List) being
chucked into a
> > (for example) Hindutva box or a Islamist box whether they deserve
to be
> > treated so or not. The reason (in my opinion) is that they do not
have
> > exactly the same views as you (not Tapas) on an issue. Since you
(not
> Tapas)
> > do not have the capability to 'engage' with their
'different
> opinions' it
> > suits to demonise them. Becomes easier to justify unsheathing of
the
> swords.
> >
> > Shouldnt a KP talking about the
social/cultural/demographic/religious
> > destruction wrecked in Kashmir by some Muslims be as acceptable
as a
> > Muslim talking of similar acts by a group of Hindus? Is that
being a
> > Hindutva Vaadi?
> >
> > Does the questioning of the Peace Avtaar of the separatist Yasin
Malik
> > automatically become a generalised attack on Muslims? Is
attacking
> > the Islamist agenda of a Ali Shah Geelani or (howsoever deviously
> disguised
> > it may be) of a Yasin Malik or Maulvi Omar Farooq to be less
acceptable
> than
> > attacking the Hindutva agenda of a Modi or of VHP or of the
Bajrang Dal or
> > attacking the slimy Christiandom agenda?
> >
> > It is true that manner of speech, expression and how you weave
the
> > contents of what you convey is of importance and may make or mar
> > impressions. I do hope that the KPs who are being demonised on
this List
> pay
> > attention to the perceptions created by them. Not just the KPs
but
> everyone
> > else too. Especially in the context of this topic the authors of
the
> > 'moronic' postings Kirdar, Karim and Shivam.
> >
> > There are some on this List who thrive on confrontation and will
do any
> > which thing to provoke it. Does it include some KPs on this List?
Yes it
> > does. Does it include others who are Non-KPs? Yes it does. Morons
like
> > Kirdar, Karim, Shivam and Inder Salim, alongwith such morons like
We Wei,
> > Chanchal Malviya and (if I am not wrong, the new Avtaar of
Radhikarajen)
> > Rajendra Bhat.
> >
> > Where are the 'intellectual capabilities' that seek to
converse
> and discuss
> > without open or veiled attacks? There are some. Woefully few.
> >
> >
> > Kshmendra
> > (yet another moron)
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 10/26/08, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] one more Kashmiri Pundit email &
I'll
> commit
> > suicide
> > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 10:44 PM
> >
> > Kshemendra,
> >
> > I have a certain respect for you (not that you can't live
without it),
> > and take your criticism seriously.
> >
> > You are right. These people are indeed refugees or
internally-displaced
> > in official jargon. It was a mistake on my part to use the term
> > migrants, which is a neutral term that does not adequately
indicate
> > their situation. I apologise for that.
> >
> > However, I think you might have noticed that I have always
expressed
> > sympathy for this group. If I remember, I wrote long ago that
>
>
> > Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
> >> Dear Tapas
> >>
> >> With what you have written, what is the difference between
you and
> such
> >> voices who unthinkingly brand as "Anti-Hindu" or
> > "Pseudo-secular" or
> >> "Islamists" etc those people who might talk about
issues of
> > Humanism?
> >>
> >> Talking about Kashmiri Pandit issues does not automatically
make a
> >> person a follower of the Hindutva agenda.
> >>
> >> You might have a better appreciation of the "angst"
shown
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