[Reader-list] one more Kashmiri Pundit email & I'll commit suicid
inder salim
indersalim at gmail.com
Mon Oct 27 23:37:56 IST 2008
Dear kshmendra
well, it is Tapas, who may respond to your post in detail, but i saw
couple of times my name,
by now, it looks that you see two distinct set of people on the list
who are radically opposed to each other. i happen to be on one side of
your list that has Karim, kirdar, shivam, and i beleive shuddha as
well,
on the other side there is chanchal, radhikarajan, Aditya, pawan,
rajendra bhat etc. it is like kauravs and pandavas.
i dont say that your are playing Lord Krishana,
because you do see faults in both , but at the same time, it looks
you know who the padavas ( nationalists ) are ,
and who the kauravas ( not-nationalists ) are....
you are obviously in a mood to guide the ratha of Pandava who are
too immature to understand the Kshmendra vision ( for example your
disdain for Hiindutva ) and your deep commitment to integrity of
India as one piece nation. ( one joint family, even if the elder
brother is a big bully )
anyway, i see some humour, but sincerely
there is lot more than what meets the eye, it is most likely that we
are just individuals, who happen to look similar, but nothing like two
groups sitting of two side of a boarder.
by the way, how to resolve this LOC thing between Kashmir and Kashmir
? i dont see a solution, but i dont a functional status quo either.
how will pandavas finally win this Dharma yudh ?
with lot of love and regards
is
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Tapas
>
> The respect is mutual else I would have not corresponded with you in PRIVATE as we did some earlier.
>
> I would also not have bothered to address your mail on this topic if I did not beleive that you are a thinking person with whom I wanted to register my thoughts on this topic.
>
> You cannot be faulted for using the term 'migrants' since it is common currency. It has a particularness of meaning which (in my opinion) does not describe the reality. That is why I requested that the issue be seen through the IDP lens which (in my opinion) would be the more appropriate one. There was no need for you to apologise. It was more than enough that you agreed to do so.
>
> I personally do not think that KPs have need for any sympathy.
>
> The thrust of my thoughts was that here I have in front of my eyes the slow but sure extinction taking place of a Unique Human Socio/Cultural/Religious sub-set. Where are those who are ever so forthcoming to take up as a cause similar Displacement and Threatened Extinction of other Unique Human Sub-Sets and Unique Non-Human Sub-Sets? More than many of them are on this very List taking up a variety of 'causes'.
>
> Instead you get 'moronic' commentaries by a Kirdar or a Karim or a Shivam or that Inder Salim.
>
> You have named some KP names on this List. I am not familiar with what singularly or (if any) collectively is their Political or Politico-Religious ideology. But what I do know from my membership of some KP forums is that they are dedicatedly involved in trying to ease the sufferings of members of the KP community through practical action.
>
> It is also possible that some amongst them subscribe to the "Hindutva" agenda.
>
> I personally have contempt for the "Hindutva" agenda for the simple reason that I see it as threatening the integrity of India. Anyone who speaks or acts in a manner that promotes or will lead to disintegration of India is an enemy of India. Is my enemy. It does not matter to me whether it is a Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Isai, Atheist or Agnostic, Capitalist, Socialist or Communist. Or is a Kashmiri Pandit.
>
> At the same time, you will see people (on this List) being chucked into a (for example) Hindutva box or a Islamist box whether they deserve to be treated so or not. The reason (in my opinion) is that they do not have exactly the same views as you (not Tapas) on an issue. Since you (not Tapas) do not have the capability to 'engage' with their 'different opinions' it suits to demonise them. Becomes easier to justify unsheathing of the swords.
>
> Shouldnt a KP talking about the social/cultural/demographic/religious destruction wrecked in Kashmir by some Muslims be as acceptable as a Muslim talking of similar acts by a group of Hindus? Is that being a Hindutva Vaadi?
>
> Does the questioning of the Peace Avtaar of the separatist Yasin Malik automatically become a generalised attack on Muslims? Is attacking the Islamist agenda of a Ali Shah Geelani or (howsoever deviously disguised it may be) of a Yasin Malik or Maulvi Omar Farooq to be less acceptable than attacking the Hindutva agenda of a Modi or of VHP or of the Bajrang Dal or attacking the slimy Christiandom agenda?
>
> It is true that manner of speech, expression and how you weave the contents of what you convey is of importance and may make or mar impressions. I do hope that the KPs who are being demonised on this List pay attention to the perceptions created by them. Not just the KPs but everyone else too. Especially in the context of this topic the authors of the 'moronic' postings Kirdar, Karim and Shivam.
>
> There are some on this List who thrive on confrontation and will do any which thing to provoke it. Does it include some KPs on this List? Yes it does. Does it include others who are Non-KPs? Yes it does. Morons like Kirdar, Karim, Shivam and Inder Salim, alongwith such morons like We Wei, Chanchal Malviya and (if I am not wrong, the new Avtaar of Radhikarajen) Rajendra Bhat.
>
> Where are the 'intellectual capabilities' that seek to converse and discuss without open or veiled attacks? There are some. Woefully few.
>
>
> Kshmendra
> (yet another moron)
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 10/26/08, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] one more Kashmiri Pundit email & I'll commit suicide
> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 10:44 PM
>
> Kshemendra,
>
> I have a certain respect for you (not that you can't live without it),
> and take your criticism seriously.
>
> You are right. These people are indeed refugees or internally-displaced
> in official jargon. It was a mistake on my part to use the term
> migrants, which is a neutral term that does not adequately indicate
> their situation. I apologise for that.
>
> However, I think you might have noticed that I have always expressed
> sympathy for this group. If I remember, I wrote long ago that their
> plight was similar to those Palestinians who have been forced into
> exile. Of course, the Palestinian refugees have to live in foreign lands
> - Jordan, Lebanon, etc. - where the local populations, despite being
> Muslims and Arabs like themselves, are not particularly welcoming
> towards them, while the KPs and other Kashmiri displaced are refugees in
> their own land.
>
> I have never said that anyone who speaks for the Kashmiri refugees is a
> Hindu fundamentalist. You have spoken for them if I remember, but I do
> not consider you as someone who even remotely resembles Aditya, Pawan,
> etc. At least that is the impression I have gathered from those posts I
> have read, which are probably fewer than those I haven't been able to read.
>
> But I cannot stress enough that the others not only are the foot
> soldiers of Hindutva but soldiers with fascist tendencies if not
> outright fascists. I have come to that conclusion from the totality of
> their posts, not just their support for the KPs' cause. My understanding
> is that these people are exploiting KPs in the Parivar's interest and
> damaging the KPs' cause by doing that. In other words, for those of them
> who are KPs themselves, Hindutva is more important than the interests of
> those members of their own community who are less fortunate than themselves.
>
> Tapas
>
>
>
> Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
>> Dear Tapas
>>
>> With what you have written, what is the difference between you and such
>> voices who unthinkingly brand as "Anti-Hindu" or
> "Pseudo-secular" or
>> "Islamists" etc those people who might talk about issues of
> Humanism?
>>
>> Talking about Kashmiri Pandit issues does not automatically make a
>> person a follower of the Hindutva agenda.
>>
>> You might have a better appreciation of the "angst" shown on
> this List
>> by KPs if instead of that idiotic term of 'migration' you see the
>> reality of the Internal Displacement that took place.
>>
>> You might better understand the frustrations when you recognise that a
>> Unique Human Socio/Cultural/Religious Sub-Set, removed from the Land
>> where it should exist for it's continuation and evolvement, is on the
>> verge of extinction because of the Internal Displacemernt from it's
>> nurturing environment.
>>
>> I am always amazed that people who can be highly sensitive to various
>> Displacements (Tribal, Forest etc) and sensitive to to sub-sets of
>> species becoming extinct (Turtles, Deer, Tigers etc) have a completely
>> different (contradictory and hypocritical) attitude if the 'on verge
> of
>> extinction' Human Socio/Cultural/Religious Sub-Set of Kashmiri Pandits
>
>> is brought to their notice.
>>
>> I will be the first one to admit that the issues concerning Kashmiri
>> Pandits are not presented in the most appealing manner. That does not
>> take away from the seriousness of the issue.
>>
>> Kshmendra
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 10/25/08, Tapas Ray /<tapasrayx at gmail.com>/* wrote:
>>
>> From: Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] one more Kashmiri Pundit email &
> I'll
>> commit suicide
>> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 11:42 PM
>>
>> Kirdar,
>>
>> These people are simply using the migration issue to foist the
> Hindutva
>> agenda on this list and to wreck it if they can't. So, I am afraid
> your
>> logic will have no effect.
>>
>> People who do this sort of thing, are not the kind this list is meant
>> for. If they don't shape up, they will have to ship out - or be
> shipped
>> out - eventually.
>>
>> Tapas
>>
>>
>> Kirdar wrote:
>> > One more Kashmiri Pundit email on this list and I will commit
> suicide,
>> honestly.
>> > There are millions of people on this earth who have been tortured
> and
>> > displaced and raped and massacred by someone or the other, but
> life
>> > moves on, yaar.
>> >
>> > I want to ask you folks: Because of your displacement from
> Kashmir,
>> > are you in physical pain right now? Are you starving? Are you
> living
>> > on footpaths? Are you living in flooded waters? Are you dying of
>> > cancer? Are you taunted and abused on the streets? Are your
> present
>> > houses being burnt down? Are you being persecuted at the moment
> as you
>> > live in the rest of India? I doubt if the answer to any of the
> above
>> > is yes. Then why have you become a pain for us on Sarai?
>> >
>> > Some months ago, someone on Sarai posted a report about a
> conference
>> > or convention of Kashmiri Pundits which happened in Delhi in
> Chinmaya
>> > mission or something. It was reported that each Kashmiri Pundit
> came
>> > to attend the convention in such large limousines that there was
> no
>> > space left for people to walk. So, what are we complaining about?
>> >
>> > Please leave this list and start a special one for KPs alone. At
> the
>> > moment, neither you nor us are able to convince each other - nor
> are
>> > we making any headway in any discussion. We can't also
> discuss any
>> > other sane topic on this list.
>> >
>> > So, please get the hell out of here.
>> >
>> > (I know my email will lead to further abusing of sanity. Somebody
>> > please write my obituary on Sarai)
>> > _________________________________________
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> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in
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>
>
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> Critiques & Collaborations
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