[Reader-list] 2-Amarnath Accord - What A.G.Noorani did not tell you !

[Pawan Durani]

Dear Mr. Lalit Amabardar,
You may discuss with people who would buy the argument of Hight Court or the
Chief Warden in-charge of Wildlife and ecology.

What do you do with those who ignore the both ?

However you would helpless in case of those who would compare London with
Lahore.

Pawan

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>wrote:

> Dear Lalit Ambardar,
>
> Many thanks for your post in response to A.G.Noorani's reading of the
> Amarnath accord. I have addressed much of the substance inherent in
> the points raised by you in my recent exchange with Pawan Durani, so
> will not repeat myself here.
>
> There is one point that you make that does however need attention.
> You say -
>
> "Where else in the country has a limit been put on the number of
> pilgrims? Why pick on Amarnath yatra please?"
>
> There are very good ecological reasons to put limits on the number of
> pilgrims to Amarnath, and to restore the limited extent of pilgrim
> traffic, through the traditional (non-Baltal) route, as was always
> the case before the Government of India and several right wing Hindu
> formations decided to project that Amarnath Yatra as a 'national'
> cause in the 1990s. There also exist excellent precedents for this
> decision.
>
> Limits have in fact been put on the number of pilgrims in the case of
> the Gomukh Yatra in Uttarakhand, the source of the Ganga, considered
> to be one of the holiest pilgrimage sites in Hinduism, in order to
> protect the fragile high altitude ecology of the Gangotri-Gomukh
> Glacier Zone. I have walked to the Gomukh glacier, and I have seen
> with my own eyes the extent of damage caused by unlimited pilgrim
> traffic.
>
> here is a report on the Uttarakhand government's decision in the DNA
> Newspaper of May 24, 2008
> http://news.indiainfo.com/
> 2008/05/24/0805241136_uttarakhand_govt_sounds_red_alert_on_ganga.html
>
> The 'land hunger' of the Sabarimala Temple Board in Kerala (the
> Sabarimala Temple is located adjacent to a forest zone) has also come
> in for criticism from environmentalists. I had referred to this in my
> very first posting on the Amarnath Issue on this list, on the 30th of
> June, 2008.
>
> http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-June/013162.html
>
> In this posting, I had made an argument to try and see the Amarnath
> issue not as a Kashmir or a Faith Centric issue but in terms of a
> question of what happens when state endorsed agencies, sometimes
> under the garb of faith, attempt to arrogate land to themselves. I
> had deliberately talked of instances in Kerala, as a parallel to the
> situation in Kashmir, in order to show that at its core, the Amarnath
> 'Land Transfer' issue has more mundane engines than faith or
> questions of so called 'national integrity'.
>
> I enclose below a copy of two DNA Reports on the Uttarakhand
> Government's decision to prohibit pilgrim traffic, and allow only
> restricted trekking access to Gomukh for the next five years for your
> perusal.
>
> regards
>
> Shuddha
> ------------------------------------
> Uttarakhand govt sounds red alert on Ganga
> Ashwin Aghor, DNA Mumbai, Saturday, May 24, 2008
>
> Mumbai: Taking serious note of the warning by World Wide Fund for
> nature (WWF) about the Ganges being one of the most polluted and
> highly endangered rivers in the world, the Uttarakhand government has
> decided to take measures to save the river.To start with, the
> government has declared Gomukh, the origin of the Ganga, out of
> bounds for the general public.
>
> The Gangajal Nature Foundation, a city-based non governmental
> organisation (NGO) has been instrumental in conservation of the river
> and had undertaken various projects to identify risks to the holy river.
>
> "It is better late than never. The ban on entry of the general public
> to Gomukh is a good decision taken by the government of
> Uttarakahand," said Vijay Mudshingikar of the Foundation.
>
> The WWF released a report about the status of 10 major rivers in the
> world. The report, released on the occasion of World Water Day in
> 2007 came as a major blow to India as the Ganga and Indus rivers were
> listed among the 10 most endangered rivers in the world.
>
> "It was a shocking revelation as in the name of religion and faith,
> we have virtually ruined these rivers," Mudshingikar said.
>
> The Foundation began a survey of the Ganga from its origin to the
> point where it meets the Bay of Bengal in 2001. On the basis of the
> outcome of the survey that ended in 2006, the Foundation started a
> general awareness campaign all over the country. The NGO's efforts
> coupled with the WWF report led the government to ban the entry of
> the general public, including the Kavad Yatra to Gomukh, for the next
> five years.
>
> "We will implement the ban in total. A notice to this effect has been
> put up at the base camp. All trekking expeditions will also be
> allowed only with prior permission of the central government," said
> JK Unial, incharge of the Gangotri National Park.
>
> He said that around 15 organisations are actively involved in
> organising treks to Gomukh and lakhs of people visit the place during
> the Kavad Yatra. But all this will be stopped within three months,
> Unial added.
>
> The biggest problem for the administration is Lalbaba Ashram situated
> at Bhojvasa. "An eviction notice has been served to the ashram,"
> Unial said. The state government has also closed all dhabas along the
> road to Gomukh.
>
> "People should support the government of Uttarakahand in its efforts
> to save Gomukh. It is now established that the glacier is receding at
> an alarming rate of 40 metres per year. If not checked in time,
> within a few decades, it will cross the China border," Mudshingikar
> said.
>
> According to the survey conducted by Geological Survey of India,
> Lucknow, the glacier was receding at the rate of 10 metres per year
> between 1935 and 1956. But it increased to 27-30 metres per year
> between 1956 and 1990.
>
> Source : DNA
>
> ==========
>
> Unclean Ganga
> May 24, 2008
> http://epaper.dnaindia.com
>
> India's holiest river has shrunk. According to the Geological Survey
> of India, the Gomukh glacier, the mouth of the Ganga, is receding at
> the alarming rate of 40m a year. If it is not checked now, within a
> few decades the glacier would have crossed the Chinese border. Of
> course, the recession has been known since early last century, but
> the Uttarakhand government's move to protect Gomukh is welcome, even
> if it is a little late. The state has decided to stop all pilgrimage
> and tourist traffic to the site for the next five years. Treks will
> also be monitored.
>
> The immediate catalyst for this move is a World Wide Fund for Nature
> warning that the Ganga is one of the most polluted and endangered
> rivers in the world. For centuries, many people and all Hindus have
> believed in the purity and power of the water of the river. Some
> scientists have tried to prove that a small microbe that lives in its
> waters kept it clean. Be that as it may, the river has not been able
> to withstand the onslaught of increasing waste, mineral and
> industrial being thrown into it. As the river flows from the
> mountains to the plains and all the way to the sea at Hooghly, it is
> the receptacle of flowers, human bodies and who knows what else.
> Popular mythology says the river managed to cure itself; science
> today puts the river under threat.
>
> The Uttarakhand government has taken a very wise if unpopular
> decision - the Gangotri Yatra is much sought-after by Hindu pilgrims
> and trekkers. The non-government organisation which has lobbied with
> the government to save the river is hopeful that people will
> appreciate and understand the need for the ban.
>
> This is not, of course, the first Save Ganga campaign that this
> country has seen, but it can only be hoped that it will be more
> successful than the others. Rajiv Gandhi's ambitious plan to save the
> mighty river did not yield the results it was expected to. Rivers in
> India - all variously sacred - have also been routinely mistreated.
> Some, like the Brahmaputra, show their fury often. Others like the
> once-majestic Jamuna have become placid and therefore are vanishing.
> The Narmada is being parcelled out. Even the modest Mithi showed its
> anger at being turned into a drain in the Mumbai floods of 2005. They
> all need help. The reasons why are so important that they do not bear
> repeating. At the crux of human civilisation is riverine culture.
>
> Raj Kapoor's film Ram Teri Ganga Maili was not about endangerment
> through pollution of this kind, but the title could well be a
> rallying cry for a country which has taken its rivers and its
> religion very seriously, but has long forgotten to give back what it
> has taken away.
>
>
>
> On 08-Sep-08, at 3:54 AM, Lalit Ambardar wrote:
>
> > In case the discussion is still on AG Noorani's article consisting
> > of baseless allegations that  are only meant to mislead the
> > Kashmiri Muslim masses then  please note the following point wise
> > rebuttal to Noorani's rhetoric( did not check mail & missed Pawan
> > Durani's elaborate post while I  had already prepared the note,
> > therefore,  would still like to share) :
> > 1. The mass movement in Jammu was against the Govt. rescind order.
> > Therefore, the accord had to be between the SASS & the govt.
> > only .The Kashmiri Islamists who refuse to recognise the law of the
> > land had rendered themselves redundant. In any case Govt. did not
> > bother to consult people of Jammu either when the land transfer
> > order was revoked under pressure from the Kashmiri Islamists. Jammu
> > & Kashmir continues to be a single entity; therefore, Jammuites as
> > state subjects have equal right on Kashmir province as well.
> > Mischievous role of the Kashmiri Muslim leaders in spreading
> > canards of cultural & demographic invasion to mislead the masses is
> > ignored by Noorani. Why?
> > 2. There is nothing wrong in the using the term 'exclusive' unless
> > there is a sinister design behind the objection. The fact is that
> > the land is to be used is for putting up the facilities along the
> > Hindu pilgrimage route.
> >  Baltal route has been in use for years now. In any case why should
> > any body object to a particular route to the shrine? There are
> > portions along Pahalgam route also which are quite dangerous.
> >  Where else in the country has a limit been put on the number of
> > pilgrims? Why pick on Amarnath yatra please? In any case the local
> > service providers are always happy with the greater number as
> > obviously it adds to their income.
> > 3. How does article 19(1) D get violated by merely allotting the
> > land 'exclusively' for the yatra? Unless there is a sinister desire
> > to disrupt the yatra. It could be only a sick man's idea to imagine
> > misuse of yatra for 'political' & not 'religious' purposes.
> > Politics at those uninhabitable heights??? The idea probably stems
> > from the post Friday congregations in Kashmir where anti India
> > venom is spewed routinely.
> > 4. Arrangements are always made before & not during the event or
> > pilgrimage.
> > 5. Ownership of land doesn't change. Hence article 370 isn't
> > violated. Aren't  Hindus of J& K entitled for equal rights in J&K.?
> > 6. Payment for land use sounds like imposition of "jazia".
> > Otherwise who pays whom? How are Kashmniri Muslims affected by the
> > waver? It is ironic that when the Kashmiri Islamists were up in the
> > arms against the land transfer in Kashmir, Delhi CM laid the
> > foundation stone of a multi billion dollar Haj House that is to be
> > fitted with most advanced facilities in  Dwarka & no questions are
> > asked.
> > 7. It is preposterous to propose fine against water pollution &
> > against causing damage to the forests on the Hindu pilgrims in a
> > secular India. Where else is this being done in India or abroad?
> > Why is this assumed that Hindus are philistine? Sonia Jabber had
> > earlier in HT also observed sarcastically that the pilgrims
> > preferred "lota & woods". I wonder what local Muslims do. Do they
> > use mobile lavatories? And what did Sonia Jabber do on the treck?
> > Why pick on Hindu pilgrims please?
> >  Why not talk about shrinking Dal Lake & Jehlum that is more
> > pertinent. At least Kashmiri Hindus haven't contributed any waste
> > to the rivers & lakes fro the past almost two decades since their
> > ethnic cleansing in the valley 19 years ago.
> > 8. Why is there silence over the illegality of the rescind order
> > which was issued after the PDP withdrawal. There is no arrangement
> > like 'minority govt' in the J&K constitution.
> > How can you on the one hand espouse openly the cause of Kashmiri
> > pan Islamic separatists who do not believe in the law of the land &
> > on the other talk of 'legal efficacy' as well as 'moral political
> > legitimacy'???
> > Why cry foul over aid to the   Jammu protestors who fought for a
> > just demand when the Govt. has also been giving aid to the families
> > of terrorists besides giving compensation to the protestors in
> > Kashmir as well. We did not hear AG Noorani scream when SAS Jillani
> > who openly demands merger of Kashmir with Pakistan ( Azadi bara e
> > Islam) was airlifted in a state owned  aircraft from Ranchi jail to
> > Mumbai for treatment a couple of years ago.
> > LA
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >> From: shuddha at sarai.net> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 22:13:51 +0530> To:
> >> pawan.durani at gmail.com> CC: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re:
> >> [Reader-list] 2-Amarnath Accord - What A.G.Noorani did not tell
> >> you !> > Dear Pawan Durani, dear all,> > I am grateful, Mr.Durani,
> >> for your post in response to my reply, > and I am equally happy to
> >> conduct this discussion under any heading, > be it, 'What
> >> A.G.Noorani Did Not Tell You' or 'What Pawan Durani > Does Not
> >> Want Us to Talk About'.> > You underestimate my patience in terms
> >> of taking this issue through > to its logical conclusion. I may
> >> add, that I have no pre-determined > agenda insofar as the end of
> >> any discussion is concerned. I believe > in letting a discussion
> >> proceed on the terms of a reasonable exchange > of ideas and
> >> information, not on name-calling as a means to stone- > wall a
> >> discussion and to terrorize its participants, or its audience > or
> >> readership, into submission. I invite you to try and do the same >
> >> for a change.> > Unfortunately for you, Mr.Durani, the issue is
> >> not about whether or > not someone is 'buying' the land in Baltal.
> >> The SASB is not 'buying' > the land. Its intent is to acquire the
> >> land through a state enforced > fiat, on state enforced terms, at
> >> state enforced prices. You cannot > call that 'buying'. You can
> >> buy the land if someone is willing to > sell it, if there is a
> >> perfect equality in terms between the two > parties involved in
> >> the transaction, and if their desires (to buy and > sell)
> >> intersect and are co-eval.> > If people are unwilling to 'sell'
> >> then, the land cannot be 'bought'. > In any case, here, the legal
> >> 'owner' of some of the land, happens to > be an agency of the
> >> State Government, and the legal owners of the > land in question
> >> happen to be several other private parties. The 800 > kanals in
> >> question are a mix of Foret land, State Government owned > land,
> >> and private property. (As Sonia Jabbar has pointed out > before).
> >> If all the legal owners of the land are prepared to sell the >
> >> land to the SASB, or to any other party, there cannot be any >
> >> objection. Not even from me. That would be a straightforward and >
> >> transparent transaction that is governed by the laws of how things
> >> > (especially land) are bought and sold.> > And then your argument
> >> that the SASB's intention to get land is > equivalent to the case
> >> of any citizen of Jammu or Ladakh buying land > anywhere in J&K
> >> would have some basis. I am afraid, in the absence of > sellers,
> >> or their consent, there cannot be a buyer, and certainly the >
> >> SASB is not a 'buyer'. Since no 'purchase' of land is either >
> >> occurring, or contemplated, your argument falls flat on its face.>
> >> > I might add, that It is the same issue that rears its head
> >> wherever > else land acquisition by force or fraud comes up. In
> >> Singur, the > Government of West Bengal, did not 'buy' the land
> >> from the people who > owned the land, before passing it on the
> >> Tata Group. It 'acquired' it > under the cover of a Land
> >> Acquisition Act enacted through the > violence of colonial
> >> oppression in 1894. (The same act, incidentally, > is used, by the
> >> Indian armed forces to 'acquire' land, including > orchards and
> >> fields, in J&K), Today, the West Bengal Government it > is being
> >> compelled to rethink its previously unwavering posture on > the
> >> matter of land acquisition. I am sure that in J&K, the patently >
> >> undemocratic act of 'acquisition' of land for the SASB is bound to
> >> > backfire in time on the authorities responsible for this
> >> decision. It > has already cost them a great deal, it will cost
> >> them more in future.> > I am very well aware of who lives in
> >> Baltal. Baltal was a small > impermanent settlement generally used
> >> for transhumance by nomadic > shepherds following the banks of the
> >> Sindh nullah or the Romashi > rivulet on their way to Dras and
> >> beyond from the Kashmir valley > through the Zoji-La Pass that has
> >> grown into a small settlement. It > was traditionally never used
> >> for the Amarnath Pilgrimage and came > into prominence only when
> >> the possibility of helicopter services from > the area to the
> >> Amarnath site became feasible. Today, it comes to > life during
> >> the 'pilgrimage' season, when many of the local nomadic > Gujjars,
> >> and other more sedentary Kashmiris, generally Muslim by > faith,
> >> act as guides and pilgrims to the Hindu pilgrims who use the >
> >> 'new' Baltal route. They are joined by Tibetan refugee and Ladakhi
> >> > seasonal wool and trinket traders, who do brisk business, and >
> >> volunteers or 'sevadars' from the plains who assist the pilgrims.>
> >> > See - No sign of land row in Baltal by Shujaat Bukhari, in the
> >> Hindu > of August 12, 2008, for more details about Baltal.> http://
> >> www.thehindu.com/2008/08/12/stories/2008081254781100.htm> (The
> >> Hindu's reports on Kashmir, especially those by Praveen Swami, >
> >> are items that Mr. Durani and his friends particuarly relish
> >> offering > to this list. So, I am sure that he would take this
> >> report with > utmost seriousness)> > The trek from Baltal climbs
> >> steeply from Domail, (2 kms from the > Baltal base camp) and the
> >> area is especially prone to storms and > landslides, which is why
> >> there has always been an insistence on > keeping the number of
> >> pilgrims low along this route. The 'overall' > figure for pilgrims
> >> on the 'Baltal route' recommended by the Nitish > Sengupta
> >> committee nowhere exceeds 700 pilgrims per day. This is what > the
> >> committee recommended on the basis of what it thought was the >
> >> possible infrastructure load that the area could accommodate, and
> >> > keeping in mind reasons of health and safety of the pilgrims.
> >> Nitish > Sengupta has now emerged as a voice in support of the
> >> SASB's current > position of claims on the land, (though he
> >> continues to maintain that > the number of pilgrims, and the
> >> duration of the pilgrimage need to be > curtailed) but the one-man
> >> committee report presented by him is > explicit in terms of the
> >> number of pilgrims that the Baltal region > can take.> >
> >> Incidentally, the head priest of Dashnami Akhara Mahant Deependra
> >> > Giri the traditional custodian of the 'Cchari Mubarak' (the holy
> >> > mace) and who initiates the ritual processes that inaugurate the
> >> > annual pilgrimage to the Amarnath Shrine, is also of the express
> >> view > that the Baltal route should be avoided as it has no
> >> scriptural > sanction whatsoever.> > Here is a report quoting the
> >> Mahant on his conclusion of the > pilgrimage this year.> > Mahant:
> >> Reduce Yatra Period, Avoid Baltal> Kashmir Observer, August 19,
> >> 2008> http://www.kashmirobserver.com/index.php? >
> >> option=com_content&view=article&id=886:mahant-reduce-yatra-period-
> >> > avoid-baltal&catid=50:localnews&Itemid=81> > I quote from this
> >> report -> "Mahant, who resigned from the SASB over the issue of
> >> extending the > duration of the yatra, had urged pilgrims not to
> >> visit the cave > before the 'Vyas Purnima' and prefer the
> >> traditional 46-km Pahalgam > route to the shortest 12-km Baltal
> >> route for religious reasons."> > Clearly, Pawan Durani will tell
> >> us that the statements made in public > fora by Kashmiri Pandits
> >> based in the valley and the Mahant of the > Dashnami Akhara cannot
> >> be trusted, but we must take whatever he says > on face value.
> >> Durani says that people like Sanjay Tickoo are > 'hostage to the
> >> terrorists'. Now he will probably say that Mahant > Deependra Giri
> >> is also a 'hostage to terrorists' . A statement of > this nature
> >> is serious, and unless Tickoo corroborates what Durani > says,
> >> must be treated as a malicious attempt at putting words by >
> >> Durani into Tickoo's mouth. I could just as easily say that Durani
> >> > and the entire Panun Kashmir-Roots in Kashmir archipelago are >
> >> 'hostages to state terror' but I do not believe that arguments can
> >> be > made, won, or lost by such utterly pointless exchanges. We
> >> must argue > on the basis of publicly verifiable statements. And
> >> insofar as > publicly verifiable statements are concerned, I am
> >> afraid that Durani > & Co.s insistence that they speak on behalf
> >> of all Hindus in the > Kashmir valley, or all Hindus in Jammu &
> >> Kashmir, or even all Hindus > in India does not hold. It gives us
> >> a sense only of their exaggerated > sense of their importance and
> >> their arrogance.> > Again, we cannot pretend, like Durani, that
> >> the right to acquire land > is equal to the right to movement,
> >> Article 370 restricts transactions > in land, not movement. The
> >> right to equality operates in situations > when the same end is
> >> sought by two parties. If two parties seek > movement, the right
> >> to equality would mean that both have the equal > right to move.
> >> If two parties seek to purchase land then the right to > equality
> >> would mean that both parties have the equal right to > purchase
> >> land. You cannot counterpose the conditions attendant to the >
> >> right to purchase land as an objection to to the conditions that >
> >> apply to the right of movement, and then invoke the right to
> >> equality > as a plea in favour of a decision one way or another.
> >> The right to > equality applies when the conditions are such that
> >> the two entities s > can be seen as capable of brought under
> >> considerations in terms of > identity (I mean identity here in a
> >> logical sense, as in saying that > an apple from Himachal Pradesh
> >> and an apple from Kashmir are both > identically, apples, and must
> >> be considered as comparable units of > the same class). To do
> >> otherwise is to offer an argument that > confuses its apples for
> >> its oranges. And then says, why are apples > not being considered
> >> equal to oranges.> > Finally, I find it interesting that Pawan
> >> Durani should use the term > 'trespassing'. There is considerable
> >> literature on how traditional > commons, became sequesterd and
> >> segregated through arbitrary > invocation of 'trespassing', and
> >> how the word trespass was used to > effect enclosures upon
> >> hitherto existing commons. The violence of the > early history of
> >> Capitalism throughout the world, is full of usages > of the word
> >> 'trespass'.> > If the people of Kashmir had said to the Amarnath
> >> pilgrims - "this > land is 'ours' you cannot pass through it, and
> >> if you do, we shall > consider you to be 'trespassers'...' or
> >> something to that effect, I > would have been spoken as much
> >> against such a declaration, as I do > today against the SASB and
> >> its partisans. In fact, the people of > Kashmir, including those
> >> who have agitated against the land transfer, > have reiterated
> >> time and again that they seek to maintain the highest > standards
> >> of hospitality towards who pass through Kashmir on their > way to
> >> Amarnath. It is only the protagonists of the SASB, such as our >
> >> own Pawan Durani, who have no compunction in insulting that >
> >> generosity by invoking the language of trespass.> > And no, I do
> >> not believe that the restrictions that limit movement on > the
> >> night of 25th or the 26th of January are moral. I hold them to be
> >> > deeply immoral. And I also do not believe that there should be >
> >> borders, or barbed wire fences along borders. I guess that makes
> >> me a > trespasser. But it makes me a trespasser who has the
> >> wherewithal to > buttress my words and my beliefs with a
> >> sustainable argument. Like > many of those who invoke the law of
> >> trespass against the passage of > common people, Pawan Durani has
> >> no ethical, or reasoned argument, all > he has behind him is the
> >> brutal and immoral might of the Indian state.> > I might be basing
> >> my arguments on the basis of reports on what Pawan > Durani
> >> characterizes as "Anti-Nationalist and Islamist" newspapers > such
> >> as Greater Kashmir and Rising Kashmir. (Incidentally, They are >
> >> neither "Anti Nationalist", nor do I see in them any consistently
> >> > "Islamist" traces. They are not "anti-nationalist" because they
> >> are > clearly sympathetic to one or the other variety of Kashmiri
> >> > Nationalism. I am no doubt, an anti-nationalist, because I
> >> believe > that all forms of nationalism, including Kashmiri
> >> nationalism, are > ultimately detrimental to human beings, but it
> >> would be unfair to > confuse me with the sources I am quoting) But
> >> whatever be the case, > the instances I am quoting involve quotes
> >> from Kashmiri Pandit and > non-Muslim individuals who cannot on
> >> any grounds be considered > either "Anit-Nationalist", or
> >> "Islamist" (They have not said they are > either, and we cannot
> >> accuse people of holding political positions > that they have
> >> themselves refrained from upholding). The statements > that they
> >> have made, and which I have quoted, can be either > disproven,
> >> which would be the case if it were shown that these people > did
> >> not say these things, or they can be verified. They cannot be >
> >> considered unacceptable merely because the newspaper that reported
> >> > them is not of the same Ideological persuasion as Pawan Durani.>
> >> > In my last posting, I had offered the possibility of considering
> >> > Pawan Durani either as a fool or as a charlatan, based on a my >
> >> assessment of his demonstrated ability to hold a sustained
> >> argument. > This meant, that in my opinion, he either did not have
> >> the > intelligence to hold on to a sustained argument by
> >> reasonable means > (hence, fool), or cared not to, and was intent
> >> on misleading us with > his malafide postings (hence, charlatan).
> >> This reasoning was entirely > based on the form and substance of
> >> his argument. I would like to > known on what basis Mr.Durani has
> >> the impertinence to call me a 'neo- > convert'. What dose he think
> >> I have 'converted' and that too, newly, > to? How can he even
> >> think he knows what transpires in my conscience, > or what he
> >> calls my 'heart' especially when, not a single argument > offered
> >> by me is based on any question of faith, emotion or sentiment.> >
> >> I have revised my opinion about Pawan Durani, he is clearly not a
> >> > fool. He is using what Tapas Ray has referred to in his recent
> >> post > as - 'human tragedies' - for all that they are worth in
> >> order to > buttress a morally, ethically, rationally weak
> >> position, with enough > skill not to warrant being mistaken for a
> >> fool. That leaves only one > possibility.> > regards> > Shuddha> >
> >> > Dear Shuddha,> > It is very obvious of what way you want the
> >> discussion to end up. > > Let me> > just share with readers some
> >> example.> >> > 1. Instead of replying to my post , Mr Shuddha
> >> changes the subject to> > :Noorani Reads the fine print on
> >> Amarnath Accord", while as the > > original> > subject line was
> >> "What A.G.Noorani did not tell you".This is the first> >
> >> impression to understand of how fair Shuddha would have been to >
> >> > understand> > my write up, and Shuddha lived upto his reputation
> >> for > > that ....perfectly.> >> > 2.When I say that every state
> >> subject has an equal right to every > > inch of> > land , that
> >> does not mean to buy a piece of land in Srinagar a > > Ladakhi
> >> would> > have to go to Assembly to get an order passed. Mr
> >> Shuddhas > > understanding of> > the sentence is very poor and
> >> childish.> >> > 3.Shuddha is not aware of who lives in Baltal ?
> >> His understanding > > of the> > area is based on his passionate
> >> reading of anti nationalist and > > Islamist> > newspaper like
> >> Greater Kashmir and Rising Kashmir. Incidentally rising> > Kashmir
> >> was inaugurated by Noorani himself. What a coincidence.> >> >
> >> 4.Shuddha again ignores the report of chief Wildlife warden on > >
> >> allotment of> > land and like a "parrot" repeats the Hurriyat
> >> language. And if this > > is how> > Shuddha loves to debate
> >> without even acknowledging the report of > > those who> > are in-
> >> charge of ecology and wildlife in the Baltal area , I wonder > >
> >> no one> > would be able to satisfy his brain,which seems to be
> >> locked for any> > reasoning.> >> > 5. What Nitish Sen Gupta had
> >> wanted on priority is that on high > > grounds the> > number of
> >> pilgrims should be restricted to 20000.> >> > 6. Shuddha quotes
> >> that KPSS or Sanjay Tikoo wanted his > > participation. What> >
> >> Shuddha does not share that Sanjay Tikoo, who happens to be a
> >> close > > friend,> > is no less a hostage to the separatists. He
> >> has to tow their line. > > I would> > not discuss this issue in
> >> detail as this may cause harm to my already> > scared community
> >> members in Kashmir. Issue like this needs a > > broader vision> >
> >> which morons like Shuddha and Gautam Navlakha can not understand.>
> >> >> > 7. When I was discussing the fundamental right , I wrote "
> >> The > > right to> > Equality " which Shuddha very cunningly
> >> altered to "Fundamental > > right to> > Movement" ... It was so
> >> clever of him to change the whole context > > and to> > ignore the
> >> expected discussion of how the 100 crore citizens of > > India
> >> are> > being denied the right to be equal as against the state
> >> subjects of > > J&K> > state. And let me remind to Mr Shuddha that
> >> neither is whole of J&K > > a tribal> > place nor a forest.> >> >
> >> 8. Shuddha gives a very childish and immature rhetoric statement >
> >> > that the> > Amarnath accord violate the fundamental right to
> >> movement > > guaranteed under> > Article 19 (A) of the Indian
> >> Constitution. Does that mean> > that trespassing is no word to
> >> exist. Does that mean that I can > > stroll on> > India gate lawns
> >> on night between 25th and 26th January. Does that > > mean I> >
> >> can stand right next to barbed wire fence on the border? Does that
> >> > > mean I> > can ride my bicycle on the runway of an airport.
> >> Shuddha has no > > understand> > of where the violation applies
> >> and where not ?> >> > 9.Mr Shuddha may call me a fool or a
> >> charlatan. It does not matter > > to me . I> > know where his
> >> heart lies and what the Neo convert believes in.> >> > Pawan
> >> Durani> > _________________________________________> > reader-
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>
> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
> Raqs Media Collective
> shuddha at sarai.net
> www.sarai.net
> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>
>
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